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Other Related Topics >> Laws, Regulations, and Enforcement

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houguy
Newbie


Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Deep South
Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O.
      #160512 - 05/08/04 03:52 PM

Hi Everyone....I'm from Houston and in my middle 60's. Last week I received a small order from an IOP and he shipped it in two packages. One package had 1/2 of my order and the other one had a seizure notice in it from the U.S.Customs at Dallas/Ft.Worth. I notified that IOP and he will credit me if I send the seizure notice to him. Then, I reordered the amount I was short from another IOP and they ship by registered mail. Today, I received two of those pink slips in my mailbox from the mailman. One said to pick up a certified letter from the U.S.Customs and the other was to pick up a registered package from Madrid, Spain (which I assume is my order). I am very nervous over this whole matter as I have been ordering for over 2 years and never had an order seized or had to pick up an order at the post office. Can anyone tell me what you think the Customs letter might be about and is it safe for me to go pick up my package at the post office? Thanks for any help you can give me....

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mizzzj
Enthusiast


Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 232
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: houguy]
      #160537 - 05/08/04 05:14 PM

It really doesn't matter if you pick up both.
Just don't order from IOP's anymore because,
YOU DON'T KNOW, it might not mean a thing, but its weird how its a matter of who turns you in. If customs seized it at the border, its kind of a non-isssue. If your local post office, turned you in, you are in for a bit of a hassle. I know because my local post office is a pain in the you know what. J~

--------------------
If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


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fxrguy
Banned: posting about recreational drug use.


Reged: 02/10/04
Posts: 10
Loc: frisco, calif..
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: mizzzj]
      #160541 - 05/08/04 05:46 PM

hey :

i have a friend, she lives in Vegas. she has had some of her meds. taken by the customs, she then wrote them a letter
stating that no where does it say that its against the law to buy drugs from overseas, and if they do not send her the drugs she will sue the customs service. and sure enough a week later her meds came from the customs service, and not only did they come they sent all the drugs they intercepted, it was about 400 pills. but she does have lots of money and does have a laywer who will act on this matter..

good luck.. god bless, fxrguy


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nycalt



Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: fxrguy]
      #160555 - 05/08/04 06:57 PM

Yes, I agree, as long as the meds are not controlled substances, customs should not have seized them and you have a right to petition for their return. Especially if it was a 3 month or less supply. However, despite much confusion on this, the law clearly states that only licensed importers (i.e. drug distributors and manufacturers) are allowed to import controlled substances (from any schedule) via mail. All other importation attempts via mail are illegal and "subject to seizure."

That said, in practice, like driving 60 MPH in a 55 MPH zone, the priority of seizing drugs like a small quantity of Valium is low and more often then not, especially if the IOP knows what they are doing when they ship, the meds will make it through customs. There are also "hot" drugs that are more likely to get seized, such as steroids.

But, you're always taking a risk ordering controlled substances from an IOP. Therefore if you get a custom's seizure notice for a controlled substance, contact the supplier and get a refund or, if you dare, attempt a reshipment. Most reputable companies will give you the option of either.

In theory, once you have received a seizure notice you have been "flagged" and should probably avoid tempting fate further. At the very least give it a bit of time before trying again. Unless your ordering large quantities frequently, its quite rare indeed but who wants the next escalation step: the DEA knocking on your door?

The safest policy is to only order unscheduled meds from an IOP. Use domestic OP's for controlled substances, although of course there are legal implications here as well. Hence the term, "controlled substance." But at least you won't be dealing with customs seizures.

The DEA's web site provides a fairly comprehensive list of controlled substances and their corresponding schedule should you be curious. The lower the schedule, the higher potential for abuse (at least as far as the DEA is concerned), the more difficult the med is to obtain, and the more likely it will be seized by customs.

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/scheduling.html


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dman22
Enthusiast


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 264
Loc: Everywhere
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: nycalt]
      #160557 - 05/08/04 07:23 PM

Good information, however, I kindly disagree with the 'flagged' theory portion. I have a friend whose brother works for U.S. Customs and he stated that the U.S. doesn't currently have any such system in place. FYI -

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Luv714
Banned for posting "PM me for good source" which our rules we equal making offers


Reged: 02/16/02
Posts: 184
Loc: NorthEast USA
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: houguy]
      #160559 - 05/08/04 07:52 PM

Hey I just PM'd you.... read & relax lemme know how it goes.... take a deep breath and it'll all be ok..
Luv714


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Trampy
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: nycalt]
      #160562 - 05/08/04 07:58 PM

Quote:

Yes, I agree, as long as the meds are not controlled substances, customs should not have seized them and you have a right to petition for their return. Especially if it was a 3 month or less supply. ...




"... petition for their return"? Not worth it. The FDA's 1988 Pilot Guidance was intended to allow personal-use mail imports of drugs not sold in the U.S. If anyone here was born before the protease-inhibitor cocktail came to be used for HIV, the AIDs activist group Act Up lobbied the FDA to start a policy to look the other way in order to allow possibly life-saving treatments for the terminally ill. That's how the Pilot Guidance came to be; there were AIDs treatments used in other countries and not approved by the FDA. Nonetheless, despite the 1988 Guidance (which was a policy statement to not enforce the law) ... under the FFD&C Act, FDA has had for over 30 years the discretionary authority to seize ANY prescription drug imported from overseas by mail which was not manufactured in an FDA-approved factory. But they rarely do it unless it's something like carisoprodol (because it's scheduled in several states) ... but they can ... and they do ... seize almost anything. (Yes, they can, and do, seize Catapres coming in from Canada ... it's all about protecting U.S. drug company profits but they pretend it's to protect our safety).

Also, re getting seized drugs out of Customs by threatening a lawsuit, i'd love to see some proof that really happened. I've never heard a credible story of such a request succeeding. There would be no legal basis for a lawsuit, and Customs and FDA knows that. If you sent Customs such a threat now, they'd probably add you to one of the Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) watchlists and search and interrogate you every time you fly. Customs (ICE) is now integrated into DHS. Don't mess with them. They can do unpleasant things.

The only rational reponse to a seizure letter is to shred it. If it's sent Certified, don't sign for it. If you see that letter at the PO, my advice is to act like you're a nut case and tell the postal clerk you don't believe in the guvvament. They'll return it to sender.

Trampy

--------------------
Your mileage may vary ...


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nycalt



Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: Trampy]
      #160573 - 05/08/04 08:29 PM

Well, this is not as clear as it could be but its from the FDA's website's FAQ section:

"Is it illegal for a foreign pharmacy to ship prescription medicines into the U.S.?

"It is illegal for anyone, including a foreign pharmacy, to ship prescription drugs that are not approved by FDA into the U.S. even though the drug may be legal to sell in that pharmacy's country. Under the scheme that Congress established to ensure that drugs are safe and effective, drugs are tested and test results are thoroughly reviewed by FDA scientists. U.S. law also requires that products approved for sale in the United States have their formulation approved by FDA, be made in a plant registered with FDA, and be produced under quality standards enforced by FDA.

"Prescription drugs available from a foreign pharmacy that are products that FDA has not approved; products with similar, but not identical formulations as FDA-approved products; products not made under the quality standards required by U.S. law or labeled according to U.S. requirements; or products not stored or distributed under the quality conditions required in the U.S. cannot be legally sold in the U.S."

So the question is, for example, is generic Paraxotine 20 MG from India the same as generic Paraxotine 20 MG (Paxil) from the U.S. and therefore is allowed to be imported under this rule. Or not because it was not manufactured in an FDA approved facility???? My guess is like you said probably not, but its rarely enforced.


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Trampy
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: nycalt]
      #160597 - 05/08/04 10:10 PM

Quote:

So the question is, for example, is generic Paraxotine 20 MG from India the same as generic Paraxotine 20 MG (Paxil) from the U.S. and therefore is allowed to be imported under this rule. Or not because it was not manufactured in an FDA approved facility???? My guess is like you said probably not, but its rarely enforced.




"It is illegal for anyone, including a foreign pharmacy, to ship prescription drugs that are not approved by FDA into the U.S. ..."

Yes, it says "to ship, not "to receive." It makes a difference.

You're certainly on the right track, but it's even more complicated. You are correct that the FDA can (if they want) seize the Indian generic Paxil under authority of the FFD&C Act because it was not manufactured in an FDA-approved facility, has the required markings and product insert, etc. ... but the FDA will often let unscheduled drugs through. But not always, as you say. Pfizer is probably not too happy that an Indian generic of a Viagra pill they sell for $12 here has several companies in India that sell it there for a few pennies.

All Indian patent law cares about is whether the generic manufacturer illegally used a patented "recipe" to make the drug; they don't care that Pfizer has exclusive marketing rights for Viagra in the rest of the world. There are at least five versions of sildenafil sold in India ... all legal (at least there in India).

India and South Africa are the only two industrial countries who have not joined the rest of the world in respecting "use patents" for drugs. The major reason South Africa hasn't joined has to do with HIV and AIDS. So they copy-cat the very expensive HIV drugs because they say they have no choice.

The unique patent status of Indian and South African drugs can set off red flags at Customs because they know that "the purple pill" is protected by U.S. patent law. This is almost the same reason that Customs will seize conterfeit Gucci handbags and Rolex watches; the difference is that the Indian drugs violate patent law, not the trademark law that protects the Gucci and Rolex names. To make it even stranger, some Indian companies have FDA-approved factories in India and legitimately sell the generics made there in U.S. pharmacies. A company named Dr. Reddys is one example: http://www.drreddys.com . But most of their factories in India are not FDA approved. I think Dr. Reddys even has factories in the U.S.

And Viagra is made in a Pfizer factory located in Ireland. Yup. Pfizer pays the FDA to fly inspectors and QA auditors to Ireland to in order to approve the production of Viagra.

Since you mention paroxetine, Customs can also theoretically seize it for patent violation. Another obvious example would be that Viagra. The Indian drug companies call their drugs Silagra, Kamagra ... anything but Viagra (because India respects the registered trademark Viagra).

India does not have "use patents" in their drug laws ... only "process patents." They don't give exclusive market rights (or respect the market rights of other companies) for drugs. A drug manufacturer will either patent a synthesis procedure or protect it as a trade secret. If they patent the synthesis, then nobody (not even in India) can use legally the same method to create the drug. But the problem with patents is that they expire. Trade secrets can stay secret as long as they keep the secret. Someone who breaches an employment or other type of contract by publicizing something they agreed to keep secret can be sued for monetary damages and given restraining orders or injunctions. Others who steal a recipe to sell to a competitor can be sued for the same kind of civil damages, as well as be convicted of grand larceny or other criminal charges relating to theft of intellectual property. Industrial espionage is a crime in itself, even if it is unsuccessful.

Trade secrets can last for a long time. The classic example is Coca Cola. How many people know the exact recipe and all the ingredients after a hundred years? It's probably a better-kept secret than how an H bomb works.

Trampy


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drewsmerdel
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 1137
Loc: Nap Town
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: Trampy]
      #160680 - 05/09/04 09:30 AM

Unless you want them to have positive ID on you, DO NOT PICK UP THE PARCEL! You give ID DL# or SS# when signing for a regisitered parcel! I had passed on my certified customs letter, NO way was I going to pick up and sign for an emply parcel, and have to give them my DL or SS#?!?!

Now, before any says "paranoid", ask why would they go thru the hassel unless they want "proff" or verification of who the reciever is?? Comon you been to the post office, right?? Certified mail is like $4 bucks, or something like that, its not free...

Drew

--------------------
Are you hungry?
Are you sick?
Are you begging for a break?
Are you sweet?
Are you fresh?
Are you strung up by the wrists?


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yertman
Banned: posting e-mail sources


Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 76
Loc: Louisiana
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: houguy]
      #160777 - 05/09/04 07:46 PM

I had two orders seized recently, customs sent certified and I didn't pick it up, then the re-ship was seized, got another certified letter. Stopped using that source, though everybody else seems to get theirs from him. Mine where also all seized at Dallas/Ft. Worth, seems anything that goes thru Dallas or San Francisco gets seized.
I may be wrong, but I don't think they usually write down your DL# or anything other than your name when just a registered shipment, when my mailman delivers stuff I have to sign for, he never asks for ID. Maybe it is differant when you have to go to the PO to pick it up?? Controlled delivery I know they do, but the standard Customs certified letters are just sent registered.
The mailman delivered a registered package from an IOP the other day that rattled, he had to have known it was medication. I'm paranoid after recent seizures and was looking behind him to see if the DEA or something was geting ready to bust me. The package contained Zocor for my elderly mother.
I wouldn't sweat it though, just don't order from that IOP anymore. Don't think you have anything to worry about. A year ago I had a fairly large order of anabolic steriods seized, I figure if they where gonna get me or flag me, it would have been then. I think its terrible that the goverment won't let people get affordable meds, which are sold OTC in almost every other country in the world. Just another way for the rich to exploit the poor in my opinion. The powerfull politicaly connected pharmaceutical corporations don't want the sick and poor to get medication at an affordable cost, when it costs pennies to manufacture these meds.Most people don't have a clue as to how much the politicians receive from the Pharmaceutical sector.
Sorry for rambling on, just ticks me off when I hear about people in pain or in need of medication denied of recieving it. Best of luck


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drewsmerdel
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Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 1137
Loc: Nap Town
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: yertman]
      #160794 - 05/09/04 08:41 PM

Yes you do have to provide pic ID for these cert customs letters. My mailman always delivers cert mail, he was not delivering the one from US customs, just keep getting the reminders, then my guess the PO sent it back.

This is just a newer tactic customs is using, scare or not, Im not giving them my DL 0r SS#! Again Im no lawyer, but that sure sounds like proof to me. Maybe they really are trying to build a drug importer list, NO ONE really knows, except the DEA.

Drew

--------------------
Are you hungry?
Are you sick?
Are you begging for a break?
Are you sweet?
Are you fresh?
Are you strung up by the wrists?


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nycalt



Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: Trampy]
      #160828 - 05/10/04 12:35 AM

Great information. Thanks. I was aware of the problems with South Africa. I never knew India was even worse.

In fact your reply made me think about my personal ordering experience from India....

According to a U.S. drug reference book I looked at before I ordered (don't remember which but it was one of the largest (popularity as well as size!)), "XET" the brand name for the Indian Paxil I bought from an Indian IOP recently, is listed as an "approved" foreign equivalent version of the drug. Not quite sure exactly what that means but I assumed it meant that Smith Kline Beecham (the holder's of Paxil's patent) approved the product, the company (and therefore the factory) that makes it and insured consistency and quality??? The meds were in the typical for foreign meds 10 pill blister pack which looked authentic (had the dosage, XET brand logo, manufacture date and code, etc). But I guess we all know how good copies can be.

In any case, I guess my question is, do you think there is a chance that I got inferior or even dangerous "knock-off's"?? And is any way to really know for sure?

Thanks again for all the great info!


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lillans_axe
Newbie


Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 37
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: houguy]
      #160910 - 05/10/04 11:39 AM

1st off I will never order from an IOP again. I only get meds. from my doctor or an OP that asks for records.
Trustedmeds shipped a package 3/27. I asked for a refund, but they re-shipped 3 weeks ago. Never received anything.... a seizure letter, meds... nothing. I get my meds. delivered along with anything that needs to be signed to a store that will sign for it. How do you avoid registered letters in those cases???? 3/27 seems like a long time ago. I have asked for a refund, because I don't want the meds. Trustedmeds still states that it is legal to receive in the U.S. I was under the wrong impression until I visited this site. I promptly asked for a refund. 3/27 & no seizure letter or anything. Didn't want a re-shipment... just wanted my money back. Just weird when you don't receive a letter (which I learned from this site) or anything. I only get my meds. from my doctor or a legal OP that asks for records. Using IOP's is not worth it.

Edited by lillans_axe (05/10/04 11:55 AM)


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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast


Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 290
Loc: East
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: lillans_axe]
      #160917 - 05/10/04 11:49 AM

I think its best if you just take the loss. Toss the seizure in the trash. You probably will get a follow up one in a month or 2, trash that one to. Thats about all they can do is send out the letter hoping to scare you.

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liesaadams2002
Member


Reged: 02/06/02
Posts: 133
Loc: Midwest
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: drewsmerdel]
      #161812 - 05/13/04 06:19 AM

I have never shown my drivers license or ss# when signing a registered at my post office.

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Lablady2
Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 176
Loc: New York City
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: lillans_axe]
      #162474 - 05/16/04 11:49 AM

Funny you should mention Trusted Meds and that timeframe. I have ordered from them many times and have never had a problem. However, ordered 3/19 - order never arrived. Ordered again 4/12 (reshipment)- never arrived either. No letter from Customs (thank God) and it is now mid-May. They (Trusted) credited my charge card for the full amount last week, and told me to check with customs as their "seems to be a problem delivering to my address since they state shipping laws have recently changed". My opinion, they in all probablity were out of what I ordered and never shipped it to begin with. Will NOT order from them in the future!

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johnjacobs
Member


Reged: 05/04/02
Posts: 188
Loc: SE USA
Re: Need Advice...Letter From U.S.Customs at P.O. [Re: liesaadams2002]
      #164955 - 05/27/04 12:14 AM

I unfortunatly have had to show ID (DL) in order to get a IOP parcel.... not a letter... but that was over 2 years ago... and have constantly ordered IOP ever since(including seizures).
I think it just depends on the PO clerk you deal with... although these days i would be more leery of it... but i am leaning towards the paranoid side these days anyway...

just my opinion


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