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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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Things like :
Clofeniclan
Cloforex
Fenbutrazate
Fencamfamine
Fenetylline (Captagon)
Dioxadrol (d form Rydar Relane)
Diphemethoxidine (Cleofil)
Fenolozone (Ordinator)
Levophacetoperane (lidepran)
Mefexamide (mexephenamide)
Prolintane (Promotil, Katavit)
Fenbutrazate
Diphemethoxidine HCl
Mefenorex
Mefexamide (mexephenamide)
Pemoline (I took it for 5 years prescription with no liver enzyme problems, others MMV, but I don't need the warning!;))
Picilorex
Pipradrol
I am on a quest...
It's not about strength, ro getting some ritalin, that is like searching for amethyst and finding a lump of slag...
It is about finding them...
I had a diagnosis of ADD at 13, way back in the day...
Now, two decades later, I am running into the neolithic Docs that want to try out some crappy tricyclic AGAIN (as did the last 10 psych's over 20 years) or put me on Ritalin...
I want options darn it!
Any old way... Pemoline made me sane, never had an elevated enzyme level in years... 112.75 mg's a day, I was normal...
God just ead what I am writing, you can tell I need medication...
No joke, it is more about not being defeated by the system, and KNOWING these are articles of commerce somewhere...
SURELY there are some folk out there that are as fascinated by these offbeat and little known fellows (some more than others) as I am...
Especially, dioxadrol, levophacetoperane, pemoline, fenozolone and prolintane...
It drives me crazy that many of these are simple schedule 4's and IMPOSSIBLE to acquire...
I will give my first born, regardless of number of eyes, to the one who can find a few of these crazy diamonds...
Hell, I also collect shiny rocks...
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/29/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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i hope this doesn't sound too flippant to you, but have you ever tried Yerba Mate? most Uraguays, and a lot of Brazilians drink this drink all day long, i bought some and drink it on the days i need a stimulant, it is NOT caffeine altho that is what the 'authorities' call it, anyway imo it has a lot of antioxidants and is a mind stimulant. and has been used for centuries by a healthy bunch of people.   
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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I don't think that is flippant at all... Yes, I have tried it, have a tin in the pantry at the very moment... It is pleasant enough, but a quid of Catha has it knocked down as far as the ethnobotanicals go...
But being a textbook example of an adult ADD/ADHD sufferer, its effects are minimal... Frankly, I just enjoy the ritual of steeping it and drinking.
Its active constituents are farily broad but primarily xanthine derivatives... Mainly caffeine, theobromine, theophylline, (I believe the citric acid salts of these) and a few vitamins, and neocholerogenic acid, chlorogenic acid a few others. Nice for an ethnobotanical, but not great...
I prefer espresso!!!
Sooo daaaark...
The antioxidants effects are a nice bonus, but I take melatonin (9mgs) at night to aid my insomnia, and it is, I beleive, about ten thousand times as efficient of a free radical scavenger than even vitamin C...
I really do need to find something to control my condition... I work in the chemical information industry, and my job is excrutiatingly meticulous... After about 4 hours, I am literally coming out of my SKIN from sitting and reading if unmedicated... It is unbearable in ever sense of the word, thohg I actually enjoy the work, and the occasional 5 conseutive 12 hour days have me on the brink of a total nervous breakdown...
My life is in utter shambles, and I try to do so much at once that nothing ever gets done. The utilites get shut off because the bills, though stamped and enveloped sit for weeks or are lost, I spend half my life looking for things I put "somewhere", and I will mean to call the gf in a few minutes, and end up with 5 projects a third finished and its 5 hours later...
When taking ritalin, which is what I am currently prescribed, but dislike because of its sloppy body load and roller coaster action, I am fine, for about 3 hours a 20 mg dose, then my symptoms are twice as bad...
The extended release products of ritalin actual will put me to sleep... 40 mg extended and I have fallen asleep in my office on 2 seperate occasions...
Adderall is better, but the exteded release at 35 mgs will still sedate me to the point that my speech slurs... Immediate release is better by far... But it is schedule 2 for a reason... I don't like taking it, for a variety of reasons.
For some reason, pemoline is not prescribed by any practitioner I have met since I left the area of my only understanding and well informed doctor.
As for the acute liver failure, that was limited to a handful of cases in the 40 year history of the use of the drug, it was tragic, but so many other commonly prescribed drugs are far more dangerous and have caused thousands of times more deaths...
A typical panic reaction in our over lititgous society. I took it for years, and my liver profile was excellent.
I am hoping to find something else, it just seems ridiculous that with literally scores of schedule 4 stims, with little to no history of heavy abuse (although, as with any psychotropic medication, dependence is possible if ABUSED) many also classified as antidepressants, that on the whole PLANET nothing is available, anywhere at any price...
I mean, schedule 3's 4's???
The best online stim for me is benzphetamine, with its prolonged action, but its price is prohibitive, and in actuality it is only an extended release methamphetamine after metabolic debenzylation.
Phendimetrazine is a little help, but really, an anorexiant, and not a very good one... Still better than ritalin IMHO for overall use, but it is sub par...
Phentermine is useless. It's DA neurological profile pretty much says it all...
Meclofenoxate (Lucidril, a common nootropic) is a useful adjunct but not a primary treatment option...
Deprenyl is the same, but less so...
If anyone knows ANYTHING that could help me out, it would be so appreciated, the problem is job threatening, destroys my social life, and makes day to day chores a thing of precarious survival, not routine... I make a good living, but still live on the razors edge of having my house of cards collapse all the time, and the stress from that alone is staggering.
Even simple discussion or dissenting opinions are welcome!
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Please, don't throw me into the briar patch...
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/29/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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gee thanx for all the info on yerba mate, how about piracemetal? (sp prolly wrong) but i guess if you've tried lucidril you've prolly tried nootropil. sorry for your condition.  
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 955
Loc: USA
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If you have had no success with ritalin or the other med you mentioned, have you thought about trying Stratera(sp). I don't think it would be too hard to get a script for it considering your condition. It is supposed to be narcotic free and less side effects.
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"Every day is a new day I am thankful for every breath I take, I won't take it for granted so I learn from my mistakes. So I trust in love, it gives me peace of mind." POD
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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Strattera is another med that I have been on, albeit for a very short time...
I started feeling a little sick, and couldn't sleep after the first couple of days...
By the third or fourth I thouhgt I had the flu, by the fifth I was throwing up and when I passed out on a flight of stairs I was taken to an ER where my blood pressure had risen from my usual reading of 110 over 80 (I have consistently low blood pressure) to around 200 over 130. I was given clonidine for 1 week, had to get my BP taken two times per day for monitoring, and was able to get up and move around and eat about 2 days later...
Mentally, I was anxious, angry, irritable and verging on violent outburst of irrational frustration... IMHO, it is an aweful drug, only marketed for its use in ADD because of it's failure to pass FDA approval for depression and the "need" to avoid giving adults dopamine receptor modulating medicines... Wouldn't want to make adults feel nice now would we?
An interesting tidbit about strattera that they are not particularly excited to divulge to the public... It was designed as an anti depressant, and when it failed miserably and consistently in clinical trials, they were unwilling to lose all the money the invested in its testing, and they pushed it through for ADD because Dopamine is of course, Evil.
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diggsbakes
Veteran
Reged: 09/17/03
Posts: 600
Loc: Mountians
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What about Dexedrine? I don't believe you have mentioned it. I took it a few years ago and found it to work great.
Diggs
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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You know, I have no idea... I have never had a doctor prescribe it though I have been placed on 50 mgs adderall XR, and the one or two times I mentioned it, I got looks that warned me not to push it...
I get the impression lot of psychs are scared of it, prolly cos of the DEA monitoring program, making sure patients everywhere are safe from receiving proper treatment...
Just like with tranq's an pain killers...
And as for finding it online...
*Sound of wind roaring through blasted landscape*
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 489
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Quote:
What about Dexedrine? I don't believe you have mentioned it. I took it a few years ago and found it to work great.
Diggs
Pilot's little helper, eh?
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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diggsbakes
Veteran
Reged: 09/17/03
Posts: 600
Loc: Mountians
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You might just mention it to your doc at home. I was prescribed 30mg/ day in high school, but actually only too 1 15mg a day. I took the full dose............. see ya later!!! zzziiiiiiiiiiiinnnngggggggggggg!!!!!
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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Interestingly enough, pemoline magnesium was used by the British pilots in WW2, because of its long duration and excellent ability to increase concentration...
Often the stimulating effects of the amphetamines, and the "rush" after ingestion can be distracting intead of having the desired effect (like when you find yourself scrubbing out the bathtub with your right hand, and your holding a broom in the left, and thee is a pile of papers you dragged along with you that you were going to put SOMEWHERE... Boy the mirror sure is smudged, dropping the scrub brush)...
Diggsbakes, unfortunately, the only doctors I can find since I moved here are of the ilk that ADHD/ADD is immediately terminated at 18, and one can no longer be ADD after that point... Insta-Cure!!!! Just hit the age of majority and you are no longer afflicted...
I was lucky to find one that would even write a script for 20 mg's a day, (ever so reluctantly) about 4-6 hours worth, for an adult of 100 kilo's... Just enough to get half way through work and then suffer vicious rebound effects for the last half of the day...
I even mention adderal, and I immediately see his eyes register "drug seeking behavior"...
I mention pemoline, and I can tell he thinks it will just be far to much work for him to have to look at the bimonthly blood test reports...
Hence I am here on my fruitless quest to find something that works...
Rits are available online, but they are truly just a poor second choice...
Ah, the glories of the marketing forces...
I STILL would LOVE to know why so many shedule 4 stims are totally unavailable, but 4's, 3's and even 2's of narcotics, depressants, laughers screamers and gigglers can be had readily throughout the world at the click of a button...
Aaah, but I digress...
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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Does anyone have any notions, guesses or outright lies about why stims, regardless of schedule, are impossible to obtain except for rit..?
"O where, oh where has my katovit gone..?
Oh where, oh wherer can it be..?"
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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In a last ditch attempt, I am posting in this thread one last time...
Is it really true, that of the scores of stimulants, nothing but the standard FDA diet drugs, methylphenidate, and clobenzorex are the only things out there..?
Schedule 4... Geez, they might as well all be schedule 1.
If they were, at least it would have saved me time looking for them...
Anyone interested in the psychopharmacology of these related compounds..? If so, I could post them in the prescription info part of the site...
Might say I went to college for 14 years studying the matter...
Might not...
I wouldn't be offended..!
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diggsbakes
Veteran
Reged: 09/17/03
Posts: 600
Loc: Mountians
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One thing you could do is send an e-mail to one of the IOPs that offer any sort of stimulants at all and simply ask them if they can ship what you desire (maybe try something somewhat commom).
I know that most of the OPs noted on this board only offer stimulants designed for losing weight, which is somewhat disturbing seeing that you obviously need this medication for psychological stabitily and are very well educated as to the psychological/phisiological effects.
Any domestic OP will most likely not be able to (or want to spend the time) obtain any of the stimulants you mentioned. IOPs are working on the fine line of legallity anyway so it probably wouldn't hurt to ask.
I have talked with more than a few people over the age of 25 that have been diagnosed with adult ADD/ADHD. It seems like maybe you are seeing the wrong kind of doctor.
Just offering my thoughts though.
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Thanatopium
Member
Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 110
Loc: The Howling Wastes
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"One thing you could do is send an e-mail to one of the IOPs that offer any sort of stimulants at all and simply ask them if they can ship what you desire (maybe try something somewhat commom)."
I bet you I have asked 20 IOPs about acquiring pemoline, and at best they have been indifferent and curt, at worst, outright accusatory and rude, offensively worded calling me a criminal in essence...
This compound has an incredibly low abuse potential, and is only a schedule 4, but some of the responses were as if I had requested heroin or cocaine! I was totally stunned at some of them...
Honestly, at one point, after about 3 months of being un-or under- medicated, I actually broke down and told some of the better reputationed IOPs the humiliating story behind my request, frankly, my life was, and still is, balanced on the edge of a razor... I don't think ANY of them even looked to see if they could acquire it at all, or even THOUGHT about my request for an eyeblink... Most just said it was not on their website...
At one point, when I saw a response (You've got Mail!) from one of them, I would look at it for 20 minutes, before I had the willpower to face the inevitable "NO." Some I thought might be a possibility, I wouldn't be able to open for days... I would just stare at the unopened mail for a while, and then log off...
I have spent well over 200 hours online,looking, asking, and searching since January.
"I know that most of the OPs noted on this board only offer stimulants designed for losing weight, which is somewhat disturbing seeing that you obviously need this medication for psychological stabitily and are very well educated as to the psychological/phisiological effects."
I agree completely... And I have NEVER inquired about anything except schedule 4, and ever so rarely, a schedule 3 compound... Never amphetamine, I actually do not particularly want it because of it's addictive nature. (Though I would jump at the chance to get off of ritalin, don't get me wrong!!!)
Frankly, I have tried the anorexics and found them less than helpful, except for benzphetamine, which is the best of the lot for the therapeutic effect I am seeking... But it is a poor substitute at best and terribly overpriced for its 4 hour or so window of effect.
"I have talked with more than a few people over the age of 25 that have been diagnosed with adult ADD/ADHD. It seems like maybe you are seeing the wrong kind of doctor."
You said it!
I was treated with respect and medicated rationally for a long time, and then I moved to a city I am totally unfamiliar with.
Since then, I have been seeing the wrong kind of doctors! Which happens to include every type... Psychiatrists, GP's and mental health clinics, you name it. I have a set of medical records dating back to 1983, as thick as a phone book if I took the time to gather from every where I have been.
One didn't want to contact my previous psychiatrist, (who was an angry little man who would only prescribe strattera for adults). Strattera caused a hypertensive effect so bad that I was vomiting and passing out, it nearly doubled my blood pressure.
the new doc decided strattera would be just the thing.
I told him about my last experience, and asked if there was anything else he would prescribe, and mentioned cylert. He wrote the script out for "atomoxetine" at twice the dosage I had taken previously and said "Well, then lets try this instead". I just stood there dumbfounded, and dropped it to the floor and walked out.
At least don't insult me outright.
After being outright told there was "nothing I can do for you" by the next psych, I went to a clinic, where they finally were so indifferent and wanted me to stop talking and leave so badly, that the doc wrote me a script for 20 mg's a day ( about 1/3 of an effective DAILY dose for me) and will refil it every month. He will only see me once every 3 months for 5-10 minutes...
He is the best doctor I have found here, by far.
I have a a period of about 5-6 hours a day now that I am only nominally impaired...
I dislike ritalin, it has nasty side effects on me, irritability, nausea, headaches, and a general sense of being physically ill. But at least it affords me a little bit of time where I can sort out the disaster I make of the other 12 hours of my waking life...;)
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent... I know I have got to be sounding rather pathetic, which I am not. I am a VERY hard working, honest and intelligent human being, but the american medical system has chosen to let me live without treating my illness.
Sorry to unload on you, but I do feel better! Thanks for replying!
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Please, don't throw me into the briar patch...
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