redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Hi all, quick question as I am just too...down to write much.
I am tapering opioids temporarily in anticipation of treatment with a new pain doc.
I am trying to taper from a high dose, and I don't mind some of the side effects.
The only thing that reallly does me in is the feeling of hopelessness and loneliness (and I am married) - like there is nothing out there and no hope.
I do have pain and hope to be given proper meds, so I am just trying to deal with the gloom as it happens. I've been on antidepressants, but they're no match for the total feeling of emptiness.
Anyone know what I mean?
thanks
red (or today...blue)
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BFThornberry
Journeyman
Reged: 01/23/04
Posts: 86
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I sure do! I've stopped my meds many times and usually I have suffered a bout of depression for a while.
It's worse to me than a normal deprssion because I also feel dead inside - flat. I really can relate and I feel terrible for you! The things that have helped me are things that are hard to do. A lot of what you feel are due to physical problems. Eat and eat good well balanced foods. Eat a big breakfast and take loads of vitamins and drink TONS of water. GET OUT. Run - walk - drive - shop - get out and keep moving. Spring clean - do your hobbies WHATEVER eventually you will think - hey I feel a bit better - and then a week later you'll wonder what all the gloom was about. I know it's so hard and I know its hard to eat and keep moving while you feel this way - but it's the only way to get yourself out of it. DEFY it!
I for one will be thinking about you and sending good healthy energy vibes your way! Keep talking to us and snuggle up to that hubby you have there. COme to think of it - I think I'll go snuggle mine.
And keep thinking about all the great things your PM doctor will do for you!
More Hugs!!
Britney
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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So grateful to hear an understanding voice!
I do have an understanding wife (I didn't make that clear) 
Tomorrow morning I am diving right into bacon, eggs, coffee and toast, before I clean up my bike and get on it for the first time in two years!
Thanks for listening - I'll be back many times.
Redhill
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lassie
Member
Reged: 02/07/04
Posts: 102
Loc: Illinois
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Right in the middle of it, too. Exercise and one day at a time. One small good accomplishment for another person without credit once a day. Works to lift the spirit every time. Not a bad thing to do all the time but damned hard.
Doug.
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What's that boy? Tim fell in the well!!!
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I readily agree with the suggestion to eat and exercise during withdrawal. I noticed that on the days I got out of bed early, ate a meal and kept busy all day, the less time I had to obsess about how cruddy I felt.
Don't allow yourself to fall victim to sleeping just to pass the time or not eating or bathing. I know it is difficult to get motivated during withdrawal, but it is honestly the best thing you can do for yourself.
Good luck at the pain clinic Redhill!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 558
Loc: Chicago
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depression is for sure the worst WD. is waiting for a new doctor the only reason your going off the meds?? have you ever tried tramadol? i dont know if you have something against IOPs but its easy to get tramadol, a non controlled substance from them to help you until you get your new doctor and whatever regular opioid you were on. tramadol really works for most, at least some little amount. for others its quite strong. the tramadol from IOPs is as good as any other tramadol, including the popular brand name called "Ultram"
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mgkabb
Stranger
Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 2
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Red,
Cheer up and get that doctor soon for the pain, true pain makes the depression worse. I also think that there is a little bit of fear of being off in all of us. Fear of pain, fear of feeling bad and fear of loosing the better feeling and also appearing somewhat normal to others rather complaining and withdrawn from the effects of pain. A good doctor will help you thru the way that is best for you in the long run. Remember good, smart, knowledge of your medical condition and (compassionate) (may not be spelled right)doctor. Good luck.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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redhill,
Keep in mind what you are feeling is not the real you- it is a brain chemistry that the opiates have messed with, and your feeling are a product of that. It is helped me to realize that, and it is a great coping skill. You have to "just be" - treat what you are feeling as the side effects of getting better- it helps you separate what are real thoughts and what are just opiate-withdrawal-induced-thoughts. A part of your mind wants to blow the taper and feel good- accept that you will have those thoughts, it seems like you are feeling that way, but that that's not really *you* thinking that.
On a side note- you might be tapering too fast. Are you dropping by more than 20% every 5-7 days? Tapers can be virtually painless if done correctly. Just take it easy with the taper, no sense in making yourself worse with cravings and depression that isn't even how you really would be feeling if the real you would shine through. You kind of said this yourself- you have a great wife, no reason to feel lonely, it's the opiates, not your actual feelings.
If a taper is too fast, you get cravings. If a taper is a little too fast, you get the depression/loneliness/boredom. I would make yourself as comfortable as possible while tapering- is there really any glory in dropping your dose and making yourself miserable, when you could be doing it more slowly and in smaller and incremements and allow whatever dose you're on to normalize you (and not just physically-mentall)?
If you want PM me with more info on your dosage and maybe I can help you make this a little less painful psychologically if the other methods don't work.
Just be- and feel better! Good luck.
-yawkaw
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leila01
Journeyman
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 96
Loc: pennsylvania
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Redhill - you are feeling my warmest thoughts and sympathies. I also believe there is nothing worse than depression. However, I must agree with BFT - even though it is the hardest thing to do, you MUST try and do SOMETHING. I know getting motivated seems like an impossibility, but listen to yawkaw3 - these depressing thoughts are not feelings from the real you. They are a side effect. I am confident you will be feeling better. I know someone just telling you this doesn't really mean much when you feel like you do, but if you can get it together to do something, and just keep trying to do a little something, you will feel better. I'm sorry I don't have something magical to help you overnight, but I can say I know exactly what you are feeling, and the only time I ever felt better was after I accomplished something. It sometimes made me want to do a little more, etc....Good luck. I will be thinking of you and sending you good wishes. Take care. 
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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hello redhill,
when i went thru wd i got a call for a new job and i am thinking oh no, i had to take the job and it is a very busy resturant and i mean not a minute to think about anything but getting that food out to the customer and i swear it saved my life. i loaded up on immodium and advil and just went on automatic. i had no time to think about anything and by the time i went home i just fell out. staying active and not thinking about the wd's worked for me. yawkaw can help you with a schedule he is great. as time went by depression lifted and i finally feel like myself again. you have great support here. it took awhile to get back to eating but force yourself to eat and ride that bike like you never have before.
take care
carol
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tray1
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 241
Loc: US
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Red,
My best thoughts and prayers are with you. And definately get on that bike nothing better for the soul if you are a true wind junkie like me...lol. I cant ride for now, body just wont let me. But you go ride for me....K? I will be with you in spirit. I hope you have good luck with the PM, hopefully you will be able to get a good program with an understanding Doc. Keep us updated and if theres anything I can do to help just give a shout out!
Tray
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Orchid
Newbie
Reged: 03/05/04
Posts: 49
Loc: Jamaica
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thank you so much, have learnt a lot of withdrawal thoughts and feelings from reading your article..thanks a mil.
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sloppyjo
Stranger
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 3
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Red,
Been there too. Try watching something TOTALLY depressing on t.v. to help you to realize how good you truly do have it. Sorry, that worked for me.
The one thing I noticed is that the antidepressant I was on wasn't working and tried some others until the right one (Lexapro) did the trick. Now I still get depressed but for a good reason and am able to work through it and move on in life.
I'm married too and my husband puts up with a lot of Best if kept off the board with my chronic pain and endless pills. But I have him. that's more than others can say. Lean on your spouse. Talk and talk and talk some more if you have too. To anyone that will listen. You'll move out of this phase, I'm certain of it. Look at what you do have, not what you lack. When you focus on lack, you generate it. Focus on abundance.
Best of luck to you and I hope that helps a little.
Jo
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djshamrock
Journeyman
Reged: 03/19/04
Posts: 88
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I've been cold turkey off hydros for 3 days now and I feel like a bucket of azz. My refill with NWW isn't till this sunday, oh well. I just keep on keeping on. I feel like I have the flu, kinda. I'll be fine, taking aleve for my back in the mean-time. (BTW I'm a graphic designer and I just won this huge award, best in show from a major press association.) I was all, "Yey." Hydro WD stinks.lol
If you want to listen to something that will cheer you up go to this link and turn up your speakers.
Sooo cute.
http://www.e-thug.net/
Edited by djshamrock (05/04/04 02:40 PM)
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Thanks - ALL - for all the support.
I slipped a bit in my self-imposed detox, but I still took way less than usual. So it's not great, but not too bad either.
I love the suggestion of watching depressing shows! Always been a fav' of mine for some reason. English kitchen sink dramas a la Look Back in Anger are great for that. Lenny (about Lenny Bruce) is another winner with me!
Another one I found. Work! I don't have a job, but I just did work around the house - my wife being the current breadwinner I actually enjoy doing the cleaning and cooking! Don't laugh! Plus I am working on a start up company trying to sell photographs on the 'net, as I am an avid photographer.
I need help with the dosages, since I withdraw when I take four pills sometimes, yet do ok when I take one somtimes.
To Yawkaw3 - I may take you up on the offer to PM you! Thanks so much for offering. If only you could open up practice today - I'd be applying! I think same thing goes for many here - NOT b/c we think we'd just get pain pills all we want.
I am doing better today. Had a big panic attack and survived it! Had back pain and loved it. Sometimes it feels good just to feel anything.
It's all ups and downs, and I know for every good day there will be a less-than-great one.
My new pain clinic called me today, and they said that, on the basis of my answers on the questionnaire they want their psychologist to see me. He is also the head of the department btw.
Do you guys think they just want to use a multi-pronged approach in dealing with my pain, or is it more likely that the psych acts as a BS detector?
I am a bit paranoic, because in spite of my real pain, I have just had so much trouble convincing doctors I am really suffering, i.e. not just out for a gay old time on pain drugs .
The reason is that I feel this need to almost act out a month's worth of pain in the twenty minutes that I am seeing the specialist. Odds are usually that I will be feeling relatively OK. On top of that, I just don't show pain that much - I kind of just say "I have pain"
So you see the problem. I am a bad actor, and it seems as if I am bs' ing the doctors, which I am not.
anyway - the support has been overwhelming from all of you, and I won't ever forget it. As you can see, I am a lot chattier today for it.
Didn't ride yet, but I walked. Probably will ride tomorrow though. Love it.
Cheers all
(back to ) Red
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kintzer
Member
Reged: 01/20/03
Posts: 112
Loc: U.S.A.
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Sorry to hear about your WD symptoms and depression, especially just when you have something great to celebrate. Congratulations on your award. My husband just won an award for having the highest GPA in his night classes at college in business. Hang in there, it will get better.
kintzer
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tray1
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 241
Loc: US
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Red,
Not too sure bout the psychologist, maybe its just standard policy but one thing that really burns my butt about this whole deal is that If I wanted pain meds to get high I would not go thru all this Best if kept off the board with the docs and the endless tests, some which are very painful, also would not be in PT 3x a week.......Dont these Docs get it? If I wanted drugs I would go buy drugs......hell of alot cheaper plus easier to get........this is what really baffles me.
Tray
Red sorry to sound down, I hope you get the help you deserve, I will keep positive thoughts for you!!!
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leila01
Journeyman
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 96
Loc: pennsylvania
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tragr - couldn't have said it better myself. i know how much money i spend (unfortunately, my whole family has to deal with it), and I'd imagine it would be a lot cheaper to go the truly illegal street route. they don't get it - they never will. red - take care, buddy! you are doing great. everyone participating in this particular post - you guys are great!
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Daycamp72
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Tara
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Since my last breast cancer reconstruction surgery, my GP doc put me on Celexa (an antidepressant). BTW, I HATE A/Ds, because my experience in the past with them has resulted in the shakes and horrible anxiety! Anyway, I tried breaking the 20mg tabs in half and taking one half every other day and it seems to be working quite well.
I wonder if these a/ds will help with the depression whenever I take my next "holiday"?
ALSO, I SWEAR that a/ds interfere with both the analgesic AND the "other" effects of the opiates that I take for my back. Seems like I have to take more than usual now and it is NOT a tolerance situation here.
Has anyone experienced this?
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Hi to all!
I feel a lot better today.
I actually got some meds for my pain, plus, and it's a big one, I have been tapering from a high dose, and I think I am doing OK on the lower dose for now.
You'll never know how much you've all helped me through this rough patch the last week - everyone in general and a few folks in particular!
I just wanted to take the opportunity to reply to the question about A/D's interfering with the therapeutic effects and the "unwanted side effects of well-being" of pain meds. My answer is YES, in my case I have felt these meds (I am on Zoloft myself) interfere quite a lot to the point that I will at least try and take them at times as far apart as possible.
Not even sure if that helps, but what I am sure of is that SSRI's don't seem to do much of anything for me. Mostly I take them to humour the doctors (who for some reason can't get enough of patients taking stuff like SSRI's, along with Vioxx, Celebrex, or Neurontin for instance), and the other reason is so that when a pain doctor even thinks of putting me on A/D's for pain, I can look him or her square in the eye and swear I've tried all of them!
It helps with trying to get the 'good stuff'. I am aware of how sleazy that sounds, but I feel that we, as patients, sometimes need to manipulate the system in order to get what we know works.
Redhill
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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hi redhill,
glad to hear you are feeling better. everyday is a step closer to what you are striving for. good luck and my thoughts are with you.
take care
carol
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tray1
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 241
Loc: US
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Keep it up Red,
You're hanging tough, I have a good feeling about this and I think you will finally get the help you deserve, just a gut feeling.
Im here if you need me
Tray
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djshamrock
Journeyman
Reged: 03/19/04
Posts: 88
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Yeah, I feel much better today too. Only thing was I've been farting alot. Like my wife woke up and her eye's started watering. I wonder if it's from the WD's since I have been taking Immodium. These aren't normal farts either, like the kind that smell like dead animals. I've never had farts this bad. If the terror level warning increases...sorry, my bad.
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tray1
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 241
Loc: US
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LOL. Im sorry I couldn't help myself, but look at it this way, at least you're a man, it would be horrible if you were a woman. Tell your wife to get a can of oust, that stuff works wonders......
Tray
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Redhill-
It states in my narcotics contract with my pain management group that I MAY be required to attend adjunctive treatments such as psychotherapy.
I don't think it is a BS detector, I think they may be after trying to help you psychologically with the pain as well as physically.
And I have found a "pain diary" works very well when seeing a new doctor. Keep track of the levels of your pain 3 times a day. Note what you have taken to help the pain and how much or how little it worked to reduce it. This avoids the need to "act" when you are in the office and you don't have to try to rely on memory to recall what your pain was like and when, and what you did for it.
Just an idea.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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