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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
Opinions on undertreated pain??
      #154217 - 04/10/04 09:59 PM

I sure am writing a lot here lately. My wife just called me a "board hog"

But I would like to get a discussion going on what you guys all feel about the undertreatment of pain.

Does anyone feel, other than myself, that chronic undertreatment of pain can cause more pain, or even pain syndromes, such as Fibromyalgia? Someone told me in another thread that they felt it was the cause for so much pain, and I myself feel that, since mine was widely ignored for a long time, my pain has gotten worse and possibly out of control.

It could be more mental than anything, since with long-term pain you naturally become more aware of any other pains. Or is there really a physical process where long-term pain treated with too-low doses of meds leads to other pain sites "joining in"?

Thanks again for indulging the ever-prolific board hog

Red


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sigmund22
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Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 160
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: redhill]
      #154239 - 04/11/04 12:03 AM

Redhill,

To be discreet, if you are from Old England, the dental services mentioned in the Links will be of no help to you

You raise some important questions many of which are finally open to debate in the pain management field. There's a lot of good reading on pain management websites, such as the Pain Relief Network's. These will answer a lot of your questions and put some of your fears to rest.

Your question re: untreated chronic pain leading to the development of neurological conditions such as fibro is not likely. The probable result will be that the untreated condition you are already being under-treated for will become worse; ergo, more painful. Second, untreated conditions can lead to the mind/body making unconscious compensations which brings pain to another organ, such as functioning knee compensating for a hip condition and both become weakened in the process.

JMHO, you are not a "Board Hog" but a proflific poster...
Your post should generate a lot of feedback.


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trixxie
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Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 130
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: sigmund22]
      #154240 - 04/11/04 12:12 AM

I believe that I read a medical paper bearing this out, that the receptors in the mind will make more pain, or pain more difficult to treat or go into remission. I don't recall if this undertreatment would actually cause a malady such as fibromyalgia, but I certainly wonder if that is the case. I will attempt to dig up the article(if anyone cares to see it) that I am referencing so all can see. I often wonder if thats my issue, as previous "flare ups" of mine had been treated swiftly, and they had resolved fairly quickly, but this last time; due to changes in my HMO and my primary doc leaving and no primary for me to have continuity of care, left me out in the cold...well, long story short, this episode has lasted over two years and has got worse and not better. So you see my viewpoint...

--------------------
The truth shall set you free!


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sigmund22
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Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 160
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: trixxie]
      #154243 - 04/11/04 12:42 AM

Trixxi,
Sorry to hear you're going through this period of increased pain and worsening of sx.
The article to which you refer would be greatly appreciated.
I agree with both of you that conditions will get worse and more painful untreated. Originally, my line of thinking was that if one has a disorder of the CNS (spinal cord), it would not develop into a disorder of the parasympathetic nervous system such as fibro. However, there are so many complex factors interacting; for example, the adrenal glands produce more cortisol under stress which would add a new variable. With the addition of hormonal changes in conjunction with other neuropsysiological and structural changes, more complex syndromes could be generated.
On the other hand, Redhill's idea that an untreated disorder could go into remission for a time sounds more plausible.

Thanks for this interesting thread.


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trixxie
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Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 130
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: sigmund22]
      #154244 - 04/11/04 01:04 AM

I see your point...and I am sorry, but I cannot get my hand on that paper immediately..I will keep looking. Thanks for the kind thought.

--------------------
The truth shall set you free!


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sigmund22
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Reged: 03/23/04
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Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: redhill]
      #154316 - 04/11/04 02:56 PM


Bump to move this important topic back up so more members can express their views.

Sigmund22

P.S. Trixxi, please don't fret re: finding article...wait until you trip over it, which is my style.


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trixxie
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Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: sigmund22]
      #154358 - 04/11/04 07:14 PM

Thanks for the reprieve Sigmund, I know its somewhere but I cannot for the life of me find it.
I also believe that this is a relevant topic, lets keep it flowing!


--------------------
The truth shall set you free!


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sigmund22
Member


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Posts: 160
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: redhill]
      #155225 - 04/14/04 10:40 PM

Thought we might bump this up again with the following interview from Mescape.

Revised Pain Management Guidelines Target Inadequate Pain Control: A Newsmaker Interview With James N. Thompson, MD
Laurie Barclay, MD

Editor's Note: Recognizing that undertreatment of pain is a public health priority, the Federation of State Medical Boards (FSMB) of the United States, Inc., is recommending a revision of guidelines stating that undertreatment of pain, like overtreatment, is a practice violation.

A panel of medical board representatives, experts in pain management and addiction medicine, and state and federal government representatives convened by the FSMB recently reviewed suggested revisions to the Model Guidelines for the Use of Controlled Substances for the Treatment of Pain. Inspired by new insights in pain management, especially regarding the undertreatment of pain, the revised guidelines will be submitted to the FSMB's House of Delegates in May for consideration as policy. Since the original guidelines were released in 1998, more than 300,000 copies have been distributed nationally and adopted in whole or in part by 22 state medical boards.

How should the revised guidelines shape current practice in pain management? To find out, Medscape's Laurie Barclay interviewed James N. Thompson, MD, president and chief executive officer of the Federation of State Medical Boards in Dallas, Texas.

Medscape: What was the rationale for the FSMB recommending a revision of guidelines regarding pain treatment?
Dr. Thompson: Over the last decade, there has been a great deal of progress made in our understanding of pain and how to better manage it, especially regarding the undertreatment of pain. There is a significant body of evidence suggesting that both acute and chronic pain continue to be undertreated. Many terminally ill patients suffer needlessly in their last weeks of life. The revised guidelines encourage state medical boards to recognize that the treatment of pain is a fundamental part of good healthcare.

Medscape: What do the revised guidelines recommend?
Dr. Thompson: The guidelines address the inadequate management of pain and barriers that stand in the way of patients getting appropriate treatment. These barriers include a lack of knowledge among some physicians on what appropriate pain management entails. Another obstacle is a fear some physicians have that they'll be investigated by regulators if they prescribe controlled substances for pain.

The guidelines also encourage state medical boards to consider the undertreatment of pain as much of a violation of the standard of care as other kinds of prescribing violations.

They also stress the need for government to develop a system that prevents abuse and diversion of controlled substances while simultaneously ensuring they are available for legitimate medical purposes. And the guidelines also update definitions of addiction, chronic pain, and physical dependence to reflect current consensus and expertise in the medical community.

Medscape: Are these guidelines likely to vary from state to state?
Dr. Thompson: More than likely, yes. While the guidelines do provide the states a blueprint to follow so that there is some consistency from one jurisdiction to the next, each state adopts policies in accordance with the needs of its residents. Twenty-two states have adopted all or part of the current version of the Federation's model guidelines on pain, and nearly all states have some sort of policy, position statement, or statute about appropriate pain management. I think the states will move to address both the issues of abuse and undertreatment. The wording of how they do this will, of course, vary from state to state, but in general we believe they will come close to reflecting the intent of the guidelines.

Medscape: Which states have begun disciplining physicians for undertreatment of pain, and how is this likely to affect regulatory conduct in other states?
Dr. Thompson: To date, California and Oregon have disciplined doctors for the undertreatment of pain. I anticipate that we will see this number grow in the future as more and more states specifically address undertreatment in their statutes.

Medscape: How can physicians and regulatory agencies best balance the need to treat pain associated with terminal illness or other intractable conditions with the need to prevent addiction, abuse, and diversion of controlled substances?
Dr. Thompson: Our hope is that these guidelines will help state medical boards and physicians treating pain to achieve that kind of balance. The physician who follows these guidelines should not have any problems with their state medical board. The guidelines don't interfere with the practice of medicine, but assure physicians they aren't at risk of being scrutinized by state medical boards if they follow good medical practice. The guidelines set forth good practices to follow when treating pain, such as documentation of records and communication of risks and benefits of medication to the patient. But they don't tell a doctor or patient how their pain is to be treated. If a physician follows these guidelines they should be free from regulatory scrutiny.


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prettyday
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Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 965
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Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: redhill]
      #155231 - 04/14/04 10:57 PM

first, I always look forward to your posts.
second, my opinion is, specially now, is that an element of despair can enter with the constant drone of pain, and that is a magnifying factor.

--------------------
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

- Mahatma Gandhi



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prettyday
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Posts: 965
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: sigmund22]
      #155237 - 04/14/04 11:29 PM

Sigmund , thank you for posting and bumping this so at least we know that there are some medical professionals who see there is such a thing as undertreatment of pain.

I believe the most important step we will make in society is to remove that link in our minds between admitting pain, and weakness.

No pain, no gain.

Pain builds character.

There is a not so subtle difference between self-discipline and suffering just for the point of it.

I am beginning to think the Martyrs were held up to be revered and imitated not just for their purity. They illustrated an extremity of agony that made the harshness of the laws and punishments for the lower classes seem acceptable.

No one's going to catch me out questioning the necessity of the suffering the Saints went thru. I don't want to get in trouble with God!

But all these years of having to reason things out really starts to make one consider the foundation of beliefs, and standards, and morals.

I am starting to ask why about a lot of things.

My biggest why is this....

why do we allow pain patients condition to get so bad ?

You don't watch a house rot, do you? You sand it, and paint it, and termite it, and repair it.

But we let people rot. We say, "well, just wait and see," when we know full well that continual reinforcement of signals is how we learn most of our behavior. Why then, would we expect our bodies know to ignore pain signals?

This is simplistic, but by now, there should be a pretty good standard of a individual presenting with pain that is likely to 'go' chronic; those people should be pounded with positive counseling, p.t., nutritional supplements, instructions from the get-go. Many times a longer need for meds or stronger meds could probably be avoided, or, used correctly with confidence, NOT SHAME.

--------------------
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

- Mahatma Gandhi



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sigmund22
Member


Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 160
Re: Opinions on undertreated pain?? [Re: prettyday]
      #155243 - 04/14/04 11:58 PM Attachment (19 downloads)

PrettyDay,
So sorry to hear you're in despair and pain...and then out of this came your beautiful lotus-like post. Fortunately there are doctors who give real thought to pain patients and consider the "undertreatment" seriously. I think Redhill's original post was so important because he started a thread on which members could post thoughts, feelings, frustrations. Vent your heart out...you've been through so much and given so much.......
Take very good care of yourself. Sensitive people such as yourself feel soooo
deeply.
sigmund22



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