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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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I promised to start a new thread on this issue, so here.
Yawkaw3 wrote:
Quote:
Guys, what is really important is that we still have the freedom to a pain-free life.
Is this really the case, and do we have the right to be pain-free? I say yes, and others (including some of our physicians who treat us, no.
I go to a pain doctor these days, and I told him that I have the right to a pain free life, and he just said "NO YOU DON'T!"
He said I should take up yoga, and not rely on pain pills. I said that he and I, in that case have an 'ideological difference of opinion', and he replied 'maybe so, but I'm the one with the pad, not you, and if you don't like it, the door is over there' [points at door]
Needless to say this makes me very angry, as the shots in my back and spine have not been all that helpful at all, and I've been getting them since I ran out of meds (ONCE, by three days). I feel the shots were punishment, as they are not meant as a cure (as much as pain pills), but as a temporary measure. I figured I am just getting the more painful, less encouraging, and I suppose 'less fun' way of getting help for pain.
So I, an adult, do not have the right to pain-free. My doctor says I have no right at all, and getting pills is a privilege. I should be lucky, and not count on it for as long as I want, just as long as he feels is 'appropriate'
We have no rights, do we?
I just can't get over the anti-freedom wave that is sweeping our country. I, an adult, am to have no dominion over my body. I am not to decide what goes into my body. And my physicians tell me that they agree with that. I can't get over the unfairness of it. I can't get over the hypocrisy over it. Concern over possible addiction lies at the base of denying people in pain the medicine that is most appropriate, or even the medicine they want so they can end the suffering and get on with life.
But no. Religion has entered politics, and we see how it has subsequently snuck into healthcare. Their concern is so great that oh, God forbid you should feel GOOD when you have your meds. All I get from local doctors is that suffering is inevitable, and pain is something you put up with.
My pain doctor says everyone is always in pain. And we live with it. He says yoga is the answer, exercise is the answer, meditation is the answer. Narcotics are not. Yet the thing that makes his job different from other jobs is that he has a licence to prescribe painkillers.
Yoga, postitive thinking, and exercise are fine, and anyone can recommend them all, and anyone is entitled to do them, but in my humble opinion no one should dictate to me that _I_ should opt for the 'anything but narcotics' possibility. I WANT TO CHOOSE! I do not need to be lectured or patronized.
First my pain doctor began by telling me I should STOP taking Tylenol so as to save my liver. Then when I point out that my pills are not cutting it pain-wise, and I think one more a day would help, he says no! Take Ibuprofen. Then when I get an ulcer, he says take Tylenol. Not that Tylenol even works.
Common sense is going out the window.
It's driving me crazy. I'm so exhausted. I don't know what to do anymore.
We're running all out of freedom here. Soon we can get arrested for owning Tylenol 3. Fifty million of us in pain and increasing. And many of these millions will not be helped with the endless samples of Vioxx and Mobic.
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jacksonv
Stranger
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 4
Loc: new england
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I could not have thought it, less yet said it better.
Big things start in a small way, taxes, surcharges,tolls,healthcare,restrictions,conditions,control,this, that, and the next.
Prohibition,blacklisting,gas lines,sex,acting stupid. It's all been done before, and surely,will again. But not now. It must be up to us to respond,civilly and respecfully to our represetatives and other pols to see the picture as it really is, the difference between a pill and hell. Not a pill and euphoria.
The first step is, as i see it , is locally.
Let's bitch where the bitchin' counts, downton, Anytown, USA.
Thanks for hearing my steam,
J.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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What I was actually saying is that the important thing is maintaining a pain-free lifestyle. Through OP's you have the right to be pain-free, just not always the right to use a credit card to do so.
I was saying that in spite of everything that has been happening to OP's lately, I'm glad it is still possible to get some relief.
I do believe as a human being, that's a basic right. Legally it seems that right is fleeting, unfortunately. IMO, pain medicine should be available to adults OTC, as should *most* prescription drugs.
I think the current hysteria will die down, though. I think we are nearing a peak, and then things will slowly get better. I don't think h.r. 3880 will pass, I think there are many flaws with it that prevent it from becoming reality- to me, it's an election year scare tactic to make it seem like the current administration is doing something to combat the "problem." But I think the credit card troubles are the beginning of a series of maneuvers organizations against OP's will be taking. But telemedicine is the future of medicine, I have no doubt of that in my mind. To think technology and medicine will not coexist some day is absurd. There will always be doctors more liberal than others, both in real life and via telemedicine.
What was the question?  Yes, we do have the right to be pain-free.
-yawkaw
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Quote:
I do believe as a human being, that's a basic right. Legally it seems that right is fleeting, unfortunately. IMO, pain medicine should be available to adults OTC, as should *most* prescription drugs.
I think the current hysteria will die down, though. I think we are nearing a peak, and then things will slowly get better. I don't think h.r. 3880 will pass, I think there are many flaws with it that prevent it from becoming reality- to me, it's an election year scare tactic to make it seem like the current administration is doing something to combat the "problem." But I think the credit card troubles are the beginning of a series of maneuvers organizations against OP's will be taking. But telemedicine is the future of medicine, I have no doubt of that in my mind. To think technology and medicine will not coexist some day is absurd. There will always be doctors more liberal than others, both in real life and via telemedicine.
What was the question? Yes, we do have the right to be pain-free.
-yawkaw
I appreciate your response!
I agree with your point-of-view, and I feel we all should have the right to be pain-free. And I do appreciate that you're referring to a right other than a legal one. I'll take it to mean: 'a humanitarian right' or even a moral right.
So I think I understand.
What sometimes happens is I get carried away by my outrage at injustice and as a result my use of words loses accuracy.
You and I seem to agree (consistently) that most medicines, including many painkillers should be OTC. This is predicated on the idea that adults are capable of making responsible decisions, and on the idea that we live in freedom. (at least I will assume that for now )
The fact that certain drugs are strictly controlled, in my opinion, stems from the idea of prohibition. Yes, protection is one of the arguments usually given, but if you look at the actions of the powers-that-be in that light you will see they have done tons of downright mean stuff that looks like it's designed to hurt us. I ask you (all): prison sentences for drug possession? Is that to protect me? How about loading perfectly benevolent painkillers up with Tylenol so that you can't take too many without dying a slow horrible death? Drug synergy my eye! That Paracetamol is there to keep you from using too many narcotics properly, safely, i.e. to put you off.
It upsets me because there are so many deaths annually attributable to overuse of Acetaminophen and NSAIDS (17k plus if I am not mistaken), while Oxycodone OD alone runs in the, what, hundreds? yet grabs so many headlines that just about anyone not in pain wants them banned (or for that matter, former users who no longer need it.)
This whole "they're taking away our freedoms" spiel of mine is probably unpopular with many, and getting old, at that. So sorry. But I do keep it alive because it's important to remember that we are indeed free. And sometimes we need to fight for that freedom. The current political climate is heading for some seriously frightening changes, one of which is the proposition to silence non-profits that speak negatively of our president or government. I am not kidding about that!
As a non-American who loves this country (for what it stands for, but not for who leads it) I try to do the "American thing", and speak my mind all the effing time. Shutting up, to me, is giving up, and not making use of my First Amendment right.
Still you'd never know in real life. I am quiet, quite withdrawn, and painfully shy in person. My Internet persona does most of the talking! And I am happy it [the Internet] exists. Message boards like this one are great for information as well as support from equals who do not judge (ideally - one encounters it sometimes, but we mostly work out our differences)
God I love those Graemlins!   Too bad I can't find the 'vomiting in disgust' one.
Cheers, and good night all!
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Just to avoid ANY misinterpretations, I deleted this post. Sorry, maybe because it is 4am, I didn't make my point as concisely as I had hoped.
Edited by night_shade (04/04/04 01:14 AM)
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Edit: This was in response to night_shade's original post. She didn't say anything bad, though, or anything against chronic pain sufferers or their ability to get meds. I was responding to one thing she said, just offering my opinion, hers was more or less the same.
Why do rabbits have sex? Because it feels good.
Why don't rabbits sit in fires for 10 minutes? Because it's painful.
All animals move away from pain and towards pleasure. It is as natural as waking and sleep; as natural as being thirsty and drinking; as natural as being hungry and eating. Human beings are no exception.
So, seeing as we are all like that, and all in this life together, WHY then don't we HELP each other? Why do we care when another human being ingests something that offers 4 hours of pain relief? Why does it matter if that same person ENJOYS it? Are we such puritans we can't even admit it's possible to get high off opioids? We have to put the words "high," "buzz," "euphoria," "good feelings" in quotation marks because we act like we don't know what that really means?
If out of 100 people with a "legit" medical diagnosis of some painful condition, 80 want to grin and bear it, 10 want to constant pain medication, and 10 want occasional pain medication.....what difference does it make? Do I care? If anything, I would rather all 100 be happy with their treatment. Good for the 80 that they can deal with it, but I won't hold the choice of pain medication against either group of 10.
You have a right as a HUMAN BEING to move away from pain and towards pleasure. It's as natural as any other part of your life. Some of us just deny ourselves our primal instincts.
If anyone can tell me why human beings can't be civil to each other, I'm all ears.
-yawkaw
Edited by yawkaw3 (04/04/04 01:18 AM)
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I agree completely and didn't mean any offense by my post. I was simply trying to explain from my perspective why it is docs don't script more and that there really is no RIGHT to medications.
I put the word "buzz" in quotes only because people get offended easily on this board and I didn't want it to seem that I was being judgmental at all (need I bring up the "freak" episode....yawn....)
Absolutely people can get a buzz off pain meds, and I didn't say there was anything WRONG with it...just that I don't get it from my medication (and don't much care for that loopy feeling anyway.) I have said numerous times in the past that I have never differentiated between emotional and physical pain---it affects the same areas of the brain and opioids seem to work equally as well on both types of pain. Perception is a huge part of pain relief, and opioids change our perception of the pain. Whether I get high or not from my meds, I am definitely AFFECTED by them in a number of ways.
So I hope my post is read as it was meant and not seen as a finger-pointing label-maker.
EDITED TO ADD: Rather than get into a war of words with anyone and allowing for the possibility that I simply failed miserably to make my point clearly, I dumped my post. The only problem now is that people will no doubt make some rather erroneous assumptions about what exactly I did write based on Yawkaw's reply. So I will add that should anyone care to ask about it, please feel free to PM. I really just did my best to convey a few points, but can tell it should have just stayed in my head on this one.
Have a great night!
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Edited by night_shade (04/04/04 01:12 AM)
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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I wasn't offended at all by your post. I guess it's the way I talk, I was just offering my opinion.
Yes, people do get offended easily here, and I bet a few people will disagree with all 3 posters in this thread.
I think I read your post as you meant it, I was just clarifying my original post and adding in new stuff from within the context of redhill's reply to it.
You also have a good night, fellow insomniac. 
-yawkaw
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Quote:
So, seeing as we are all like that, and all in this life together, WHY then don't we HELP each other? Why do we care when another human being ingests something that offers 4 hours of pain relief? Why does it matter if that same person ENJOYS it? Are we such puritans we can't even admit it's possible to get high off opioids? We have to put the words "high," "buzz," "euphoria," "good feelings" in quotation marks because we act like we don't know what that really means?
...
You have a right as a HUMAN BEING to move away from pain and towards pleasure. It's as natural as any other part of your life. Some of us just deny ourselves our primal instincts.
If anyone can tell me why human beings can't be civil to each other, I'm all ears.
-yawkaw
There is no way that I could agree more! And, as you imply, there are going to be people who take exception to our idea that pain relief should be a right.
Just another note on your 'buzz' and 'euphoria' comments. Isn't it strange that euphoria is considered an unwanted side effect of opiates, and is also sometimes described as a 'false sense of well-being'. To me it is a very real sense of not feeling as much pain.
What's it going to take to get through to the thought-police out there...
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 263
Loc: USA
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I've said this millions of times to other people and I'm sure 99% of the people on this board feel the same way. We have one life on this planet as we know of (factually) and I'll be damned if I can't decided what I want to do with it and my own body. I hate the fact that we fall mercy to the powers that be, in their so called quest to protect us from ourselves. I do believe that in some cases, government has to control the populous at large, but invasion of my right to choose what I do with my one body on this planet, makes me extremely irritated! I can't believe some big fat politician can decide how I will live this one very special life... I don't hurt anyone, I try to be a productive person and contribute to society, organizations, ect.. So, a little bit of pain relief to our real chronic pain problems, isn't to much for us to ask for...
One thing I can think of though, is that maybe our government and doctors think they can dictate our lives, because opiate medications are synthesized by pharmaceutical companies, which wouldn't be something we would have access to freely, unless government and medical boards, ect.. helped set them up in the first place. So, with this, I can hold some small gratitude towards them.
I can tell you this, I will, till the day I die, stand up for our rights and be as vocal to special interests, as much as I can.
Tred
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Entertainment Specialist!
Edited by Tred (04/07/04 01:04 PM)
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 558
Loc: Chicago
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"..Your Constitutional rights no longer apply"
- Jack Bauer, last night's episode of '24' on FOX
with many cop and terrorism shows, the TV keeps telling me crooked cops are good, torture is good, freedom is bad, martial law is comming, and the constitution is bad.
The TV also keeps saying that pain medication is bad and zoloft and paxil are good.
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trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 133
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What I find hard to understand is if you tell your doc you are depressed, they are soo handy with the prescription pad, but if you are in pain? OMG, hide the prescription pad!!!
Another 24 fan here...
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The truth shall set you free!
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Painlady
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 250
Loc: Canada
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I agree anyone living with pain should have the right to live a normal life. I have been with my doctor for 9 years and has tried everything she could. My pain clinic experience was a nightmare and just feeding MS Contin thinking (oh that should do) Well for awhile MS Contin was doing it's job but my doses had gone up to 60mg 3 times a day. The Physio I went to made me ending up walking with a cane for a year. Great huh I quit going to the PC and also saw a Neuro and was told because of my age 42 and I was in good shape the Neuro told me an operation could make things worse. Great now back to square 1 I now go see my GP and was taking Tylenol 4 but stopped because of the acteminaphin-spelling I was getting around 180 pills a month (Holy Sh*t) I am now trying Codeine Contin is suppose to cleaner so far I find the dose not strong enough and am waking up still waking up at night crying sometimes. I called yesterday to find out she is on holidays and do not want to see a walk in clinic because you need to walk in with your chartor yes they just look stupid at you. I do order from overseas OP because I do have the right to live a normal life and with small children it's tough being this way...Oh I forgot to mention I did quit MS Contin cold turkey which was alot of h*ll to go through.
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Quote:
I've said this millions of times to other people and I'm sure 99% of the people on this board feel the same way. We have one life on this planet as we know of (factually) and I'll be damned if I can't decided what I want to do with it and my own body.
And I will say now, and forever hereafter: YES YES!! and, 'hear hear'!
I am such a believer in this principle myself. Everything is so regulated, and it is not a matter of controlling the existing inventories, it really is about regulating what we do with/to/for ourselves. And at the root of it, you will find some Puritan ideals.
I have heard arch-conservatives say "Liberals keep telling us that if they take drugs it should be their own decision, that it's their own business, but it's NOT.Their drug use has an influence on OUR society." They seem to feel that our drug use for whatever reason, causes our Western society (which isn't really that great, let's face it) in its entirety to degrade.
And this attitude/propaganda is also what you will encounter on the deA website. It's horrible, it's meddling and it's condescending, and there's nothing us mere mortals can do about it. The rule of Law is rigid, and there's no room for change. Democracy is confusing, isn't it?
And we have only one life here, and no say in how we run it (all this is up for debate, depending upon who you talk to). It's messed up. And even totally natural things, such as plants and flowers, which can grow anywhere, are prohibited. I am thinking here of Cannabis and Papavers (i.e Pot plants and Poppies)
If ET came to planet Earth, and you explained to him the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, and explained to him Western ideals and concepts of freedom, he'd be completely out of his depth when trying to understand our approach to drugs, because just about everything would be illegal, and there's so much contradiction. Us humans can barely understand it, and we get sent to prison for our lack of understanding or non-compliance. Just imagine that.
I'm just plain old Eurotrash here, and I couldn't understand for the longest time why I couldn't even have pain medications for pain. Still really can't get my mind around it completely, but I infer that religion has a lot to do with the principles regarding drugs, which is really unfair, because their God is nor necessarily mine. My doctor even told me to try prayer and yoga. What an idiot! I mean, that's non-clinical, and it's all things you don't need a doctor to tell you. I go to a doctor when Motrin and positive thinking DON'T HELP!
So we get no help, we get some advice. Remind me to set up practice as a pain doctor, because I can tell people to think happy thoughts and to exercise.
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