bills
Journeyman
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 54
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Hi,
I have a dear friend who has been through much. 1 Kidney removed due failure believed to be caused from his extensive cemo and radiation due to pancreas cancer which he beat!
Now has enlarged prostate and is taking Dioxin? Also developed neuropathy they believe brought on from all the cemo.
He also has high blood pressure and they have him on plendil but after reading about this it appears that this shouldn't be taken by anyone who has had kidney disease and his liver isn't the healthiest either.
Does anyone know of a safer high blood pressure medication for him?
His Doctor also put him on amitriptylin because is it suppose to help with the pain of neuropathy and his problems sleeping but research on this scream out that this man shouldn't take this, not with his medical problems. Also if he does take it he will be out of it pretty much the whole next day.
It was 19 years ago that they gave him 6 months to live but he was determined to see his Daughter grow up but now the drugs they have him on scare me. I think they are shortening his life with them not prolonging it.
Oh, one more thing, he takes regular B12 shots because his body no longer makes it.
Any help on what would be safer for him would be greatly appreciated.
bills
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Do you have any links to articles about why you think these drugs are bad?
Plendil is just a calcium channel blocker. If anything, it should HELP the kidneys.
Amitriptyline is Elavil, which I have found to be useless. Some people like it though. Neurontin might help, but most people on this board hate it.
Dioxin, I don't know what that is. Do you mean doxazosin?
His doctor, I'm sure, is aware of all his problems and knows what to prescribe and what not to prescribe. It's always a good idea to be involved in your own health care, but leave something like this up to the doctors. Someone here is likely to suggest a blood pressure med that worked for them, that may be contraindicated for your friend.
The doctor picked these meds for a reason- any concern you should talk about with the doctor or get a second opinion.
Sorry, but it would be very unethical for any of us to suggest an alternative medication for conditions like this, especially with the other problems your friend has.
-yawkaw
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bills
Journeyman
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 54
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Of the possible side effects listed below he has
Difficulty sleeping
Headaches
The jaundice effect would make the bells and whistles go off for anyone with a compromised liver.
He would of course speak with his Doctor I was just asking if anyone knows of something safer for a man with his medical problems.
What are the possible side effects of Plendil?
If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking Plendil and contact your doctor immediately or seek emergency medical treatment:
· an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
· unusually fast or slow heartbeat;
· chest pain;
· severe dizziness or fainting;
· abnormal behavior or psychosis;
· jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes), or
· swelling of the legs, ankles, or face.
Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take Plendil and talk to your doctor if you experience
· fatigue or tiredness;
· headache;
· insomnia or difficulty sleeping;
· swelling of your gums;
I'm not sure of the spelling for the Dioxin but the drug you stated could be it. It is used for the enlarged prostate but also lowers blood pressure.
The amitriptylin was by far the worst for a person with his problems. Given to him for pain and he has talked to his Doctor about this because he didn't like the side effects I mentioned but the Doctor doesn't listen and wants him to take it.
I just did a google search and the first few hits told me enough to know he really shouldn't take this.
I was just asking for others opinions.
Bils
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Jaundice is extremely rare for calcium channel blockers. They are very commonly prescribed drugs.
A lot of people get prescribed a medication, look it up online or in the PDR, and think they've discovered something the doctor's don't know about or forgot. While this does rarely happen, a prescribing doctor puts a lot of thought into what he writes for. A lot of people here are sold on the idea that doctors only prescribe based on how well the drug company treats them. Of course that does happen, and of course there is corruption, but do you really think a doctor would knowingly prescribe a drug that would cause jaundice in a person with impaired liver function just because the drug company paid for his lunch?
It is very admirable that you're taking the time to research this for your friend, and it shows you do care. You may want to get your friend's permission to speak to the doctor about his treatment and ask him these questions.
I am not aware of any blood pressure drug that has absolutely no potential at all to affect the liver or kidneys.
I didn't mean to sound rude (if I did?) in the previous post or this one, I just think it's dangerous for us to suggest a drug for a man with his medical conditions. Other people are of course more than welcome to, I would just hate for someone to say "oh this worked really well for me" and it turns out that it's actually worse for his liver and kidneys. I would find it very hard to believe the doctor didn't pick Plendil for a specific reason, knowing his problems and the side effects.
-yawkaw
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bills
Journeyman
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 54
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I'm not implying the Doctor would knowingly do this, what I have seen time and time again is that they don't look at the rare side affect, rare for most but not for all. Or the combinations given, One alone may not cause more damage but put someone on more then one medication with side affects that can cause Liver and or Kidney damage especially with a person who is high risk and that person's chances for complication increase 10 fold.
This happened to my Son, a side effect the Doctor didn't even know about, I stopped the medication and the problems stopped. When I told the Doctor of this his response was less then appreciative.
I am asking for opinions from others as to what works for them because I know little about what would but I would certainly research before going any further.
Bills
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I'm not sure if this is true of ALL blood pressure medications, but Amitriptyline is contraindicated for someone using CLONIDINE (Catapres) to control blood pressure as it virtually nullifies clonidine's effectiveness, resulting in uncontrolled hypertension.
My doctor missed this and just kept upping my dose of clonidine when my blood pressure failed to be controlled (due to concomittant use of Amitriptyline-Elavil) at all.
It wasn't until the pharmacist filled them both on the same day that I was told of this dangerous combination.
But again, I am not sure if amitriptyline would cause problems with other blood pressure meds.
Just a thought.
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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i take capotril and klonopin, works for me at leasr for now
take care
carol
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537
Threadhead
Reged: 12/08/01
Posts: 785
Loc: west coast CA
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My doctor just recently put me on Atenolol for elevated BP. Do you know what kind of affects it has on the liver? Hopefully, I won't have to stay on it forever (I'm only 28). My PCP thinks the BP is situational, caused by chronic pain and 3 young kids who are NONSTOP! Anyway, if you know anything about Atenolol, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.
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Dyno
Journeyman
Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Washington
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Atenolol, Introduced in 1973 class anti-anginal,antihypertensive, beta-adenergic blocker.
Possible benefits, effective anti-anginal drug
in management of effort induced angina.
effective well tolerated antihypertensive in mild to
moderate high blood pressure. Possible risk
congestive heart failure in advanced heart disease.
worsening of angina in coronary heart disease.
May lead to low blood sugar in type one diabetics.
Provocation of bronchial asthma with high doses.
Liver function liver has low removal role. Kidney
function the dose must be decreased, with 25
mg a day as a max. dose in some people.
Food decreases the amount of drug that gets into the
blood system by 20% better taken on a empty stomach.
possiable advantage of this drug. Least likely of all
beta-blockers to cause central nervous system adverse
effects confusion, hallucinations, nervousness,
nightmares.
Possible side effects natural expected and unavoidable
drug actions lethargy,fatigability, cold extremities,
slow heart rate, light headedness,in up right
position. effects, skin rash,itching,
headache, abnormal dreams,dizziness,depression, indigestion, nausea,
diarrhea
joint and muscle discomfort, fluid retention.
possiable side effects sexual function,
decreased libido and impaired potancy.
this drug has caused fetal harm in pregnant
women, this drug has been found in breast milk. I hope that this helps
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Wishing all pain free days D.
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Mapleseep
Newbie
Reged: 03/15/04
Posts: 34
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I would agree with yawkaw bills, while it may sound simple enough, managing someone's BP while juggling around other meds and dealing with renal dysfunction (as I'm typing it, it really doesn't sound simple) is not something to be taken lightly. Besides, no one here (I don't think) knows enough about the patient (your friend) to be able to rule out common interactions let alone "rare" ones. I will say this however, if your friend has the multitude of problems you say they have, I would be less concerned with finding the zebra and more focused in on dealing with more relevant (i.e more common) issues.
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bills
Journeyman
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 54
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No, it's not simple which is why I have asked the viewers of this board if they know of drugs they he can take more safely. If it were simple I wouldn't have to of ask others for advice and help.
Which issue should he focus on exactly?
bills
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Mapleseep
Newbie
Reged: 03/15/04
Posts: 34
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Before I would point to any one of the more glaring issues of your friend, I would want to know where the malignancy was found (i.e the head, body or tail of the pancreas). They must have staged and graded it. Did they discuss the doubling time. From what you had described, no surgery was performed. At this point, after an insult like radiation to the pancreas, diet is extremely important. Eating fatty foods or drinking alcohol are big no-nos but I have to assume the doctor has said that already. From what you said, your friend went through this nearly 19 years ago? When was the last time he went for a spiral CT to follow up? The one kidney if it is functioning properly should increase in size and make up for the loss of the other one. As far as your friend's prostatic hypertrophy is concerned, what was the PSA score? Did they do a biopsy? If it is BPH(Benign Prostatic Hypertrophy), then there is no big problem there, the prostate enlarges as men get older. Is your friend on insulin as well following Rad. TX? These issues seem more pertinent and worthy of attention. If what you're saying is accurate, your friend made it almost 20 years past a deadline some doctor gave him, the last thing he should be worried about is a side effect that occurs in 1/1,000,000 people. I can understand the concern for deleterious effects of the meds he is on and the concern is not unfounded. Medications can be just as harmful as they are helpful. But as noted above, I do not have the complete story so the BP management and the use of felodipine is not something I can comment on.
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bills
Journeyman
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 54
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Very good questions! Thank You.
Unfortunately I do not have the answers to most but I'm going to his home tomorrow and I will get the answers.
No he did not have surgery. Of the 8 men he worked with at a local well known trucking company he is the only one who is still alive, the others have been gone many years. Other died from brain cancers, pancreas (but he was the only one not opened up) and liver cancers.
He goes in regularly for testing but I don't know when the last one was.
I know he had two spots on the pancreas one very large.
He worked for one of this companies little out posts and they haul chemicals.
I will make sure to post the answers to your questions tomorrow night.
I know he has lived far beyond most but he is such a great guy. Would give you his last dollar, very fun to be around, very loyal to his friends.
He is still needed.
bills
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537
Threadhead
Reged: 12/08/01
Posts: 785
Loc: west coast CA
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Thank you so much for all that information. It helps to explain a lot about how I've been feeling lately. Tomorrow will be two week on the medication, and I definantly have terrible nausea, especially after I eat. I mean I am debilitated with an upset stomach every time for about 15 minutes, then it subsides. But, I have noticed an overall effect on my BP. I don't get the bad headaches and the pulsating in my throat and head. I imagine the side effects will subside as I get used to the medication and my body gets used to having normal BP. Thanks again!
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