meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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Hi all, I am pretty new here and sure glad I found you all!
I have a doctor's appointment coming up soon for my anual physical and to get ready for spring allargies/sinus migraines. But I think I am ready to talk to him about my anxiety issues. I have a pretty intense general anxiety and do occasionaly get panic attacks. I also experience sudden intense anger/frustration for no good reason at all and it makes my wife miserable. I have done some research and know I need to get a blood test to check for some major medical problems, and I will with the physical. But I am 99% sure it just real bad anxiety. I also want to note I see a counseler and go to NA(narcotics anon) once a month, which does help. Here is the big problem, no one knows but my wife and support groups that I self medicated diazepam and sometimes Xanax about a year back and am now addicted. I average 30-60 mg's/day of V's. And before the valium I used Marijuana to deal with the anxiety, but a while back I began to see the subtle evils of the herb..(u stoners wont agree, I know but recovered ones will know what I am saying). OK...here is the problem do I tell my doctor any of this? DO I tell him I am a benzo addict? DO I tell him I go to NA to stay off the weed and try to get off the benzo's? I want to get some real help, I am thinking Paxil CR may be the answer or something similar but I want to work it out with my doctor...NO MORE SELF MEDICATING! But I dont want to be labled a drug addict for the rest of my life and I dont want him to be scared to prescribe me the proper meds in fear of abuse. (catch-22) Sometimes I think I should just start getting stoned again, I know I could get off the benzo's easy then and drop most of the anxiety...but I over do it and turn into a 24/7 stoner. Man I need to figure something out, I want babies but My wife and I agree we can't until I overcome this..... please help
I cant afford to go to a psych spec, my insurance doesnt cover it. So its my PCP or nothing. Sorry about the long post.
PEACE
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 102
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I'm so sorry for your problems, friend. I think you should be completely honest with your dr. Have you read/talked with someone about benzo addiction and withdrawals? From what I hear, you have to come off of them very slowly because you can have a seizure. The dr won't completely know how to help you unless you come clean with him
As far as being labeled an addict? I honestly think that would be to your benefit. From the sound of your post, I think you have an addictive personality. Addiction is stronger than the addict and you need to have a support system that includes your dr, your wife and a counselor (and/or meetings) to help you with your issues.
I'm not an expert when it comes to addiction, but I've been reading some forums recently to help myself come up with a taper plan to reduce the amount of hydro I need. So, it's all just speculation from me.
Good luck! Benzo withdrawals are nothing to mess around with, so please be careful.
Kayleigh
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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Hey, thanks for the reply.
I dont disagree with the statement I am a addict, cause I am!
And like you said I need the support system( which I have), BUT right now it is minus the doctor...I really am not sure I want him to know. What if I really get hurt some day and he makes me suffer in pain cause of this? ANd I imagine all kinds of other situations where I could be not treated properly....or like you siad I may be treated BETTER cause he knows. My NA group can help me with the taper down off benz'os but not as good as my PCP i am sure. So good point.
THanks
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 102
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Is it a possibility for you to go to another GP doc? I know that I have a clinic that I take my kids too when I can't get in to see their pedi doc. Maybe then you could just go that doc when you want to discuss addiction issues and the go to your reg doc for everything else?
I haven't thought it all the way through. There might be some holes in that thought. Wish I had some better answers for ya.
Good luck with the taper and let us know how it goes, k?
Hugs,
K
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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Thats a great idea kayleighbear! I have thought of that but these are some of the tings I am considering. What If I get prescribed a med from one and then I need to worry about interactions, how do I tell them about the different doctors/prescriptions..and then do I ned 2 pharmacies? Do doctors share info somehow? What about my insurance company? Will they share info? I am pretty sure the zyrtec and imetrex I will be prescribed next week won't interfere with the benzo's but, I worry about that too. Thanks for the replies.
PEACES
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lmay769
Member
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 107
Loc: beautiful Rocky Mountains
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In my experiance insurance companies do share information with doctors and pharmacies so I would keep one off insurance and separate pharmacies as well.
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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If I wasnt spending my extra cash on the benzo's and my stupid Reef Tank ( I love it but god it sucks up money) I would have the money for that but as of now I need to go 100% insurance.
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jmayeux79
Journeyman
Reged: 03/02/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Louisiana
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Your doctor cannot discuss any information concerning you to another doctor without a signed written release from you. That has been my experience in the past. I would definately utilize NA for assistance with your benzo withdrawl. Find a sponser to help you or just have someone you can call to help you through this. I know it is hard. As for what to tell your PCP, if it were me, I would tell him/her of past addictions if you think that you could not manage taking your meds as prescribed. I wish you luck in whatever you decide! Keep us posted! 
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lmay769
Member
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 107
Loc: beautiful Rocky Mountains
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True, your doctor cannot release medical records without consent, however, your insurance company can make your doctors aware of each other and the pharmacy(s) you are using and they (the doctors) can get your prescription information from the pharmacy.
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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Ok, off the topic of addiction and privacy. And to the point of why I am in this situation. Do you think Paxil CR would be a good med to accept if he reccomends it? I know it wont help with the panic attacks, but it seems like a good choice for the general anxiety. ANy thoughts on this? And anyone out there have some advice on how to deal with the panic attacks when I do get them and I am no longer on the benzo's? My counselor gives me the standard bull that helps worth squat...meditate, count backwards, think of soft fuzzy place ect.
Peace
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Mapleseep
Newbie
Reged: 03/15/04
Posts: 34
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you might inquire about Beta-Blockers. Psychologically you will still feel panicked, but physically, your heart rate will remain steady and you will not sweat like crazy. If indeed you suffer from true Panic Attacks and not generalized anxiety, Beta-Blockers might be a decent choice.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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First thing's first: NEVER admit you are an addict to a doctor.
Your shtick for this doctor is that you're not an addict. You're merely physically dependent and would like some help tapering off because a pharmacist told you those drugs cannot be stopped cold turkey.
You're taking 30-60 mg of Valium a day. So that's at the very most 2 pills 3 times a day? Is a self-taper out of the question? You could get some from an OP and reduce your dosage (very slowly though- I don't know exactly how long you've been doing this and if you ever exceed this dose- just be careful and make it comfortable and safe for yourself).
Who is prescribing these benzos? If you don't at least get part of your benzos from this PCP, you could make up a story if need be, but think that out and rehearse it first.
Paxil CR...welp, SSRI's do work for a lot of people, so you may want to try it. Just know that Paxil does have some nasty withdrawals for a lot of people. Check out this page: http://www.quitpaxil.info/ for something your doctor might not want to tell you.
All that said, SSRI's really do work for panic disorder in a lot of cases- Zoloft seems to help a lot of people. But you're used to instant gratification with your benzos and pot, you really are going to have to work on getting readjusted to a drug that really doesn't feel like it's doing anything. There is no calm, soothing, quick relaxation feeling like Valium. SSRI's are *MUCH* more subtle, but in the long-term it is worth it to yourself to at least try.
Anyway- good luck.
-yawkaw
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Curtisd3
Newbie
Reged: 01/29/04
Posts: 49
Loc: Michigan
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Yawkaw has a good point. I'm a recovering alcoholic (7 years!). I am on Paxil and xanax (2-3mgs xanax.) Get off the weed! Talk to your sponsor! Feel free to PM me as this isn't a recovery so most of things you'll need to talk about can't be talked about here. Anyway, good luck! I'll say a prayer for you.
Curtisd3
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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THannks everyone for the input.
I just want to say I am not trying to use this as a addiciton/recovery help thread or forum. I was concerned about revealing it to my doctor. I will be tapering of the valiums now with the help with my NA sponsor and I am positive I will get off em. But I just want to point out I am going in next week to talk about a more responsible solution amd I think I will NOT tell Him about my addicitive personality, or addiction to valium. BTW I get them from IOP's because when I originally asked my doc for help he told me to excercise and meditate more and see a psych so would'nt give me a med. And I am not gonna smoke the weed, I just said that cause I started thinking about it too much...
And after reading your link I think I would prefer to try zoloft or something before paxil.
Thanks
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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You know what might be an idea for you, meddog: hydroxyzine.
Hydroxyzine comes as Vistaril or Atarax. It's not a controlled substance, it's an ultra fast-acting antihistamine. If you look at the drug monograph ( http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/vistaril_ids.htm ), it is indicated for controlling anxiety. What you might want to do is get on an SSRI that would be like your anxiety maintenance drug, and then use hydroxyzine for breakthrough anxiety (i.e. panic attacks).
It's a very safe, non-habit forming way of getting some quick sedation when you need it. I bet your PCP would give it to you if you asked for it by name (say a pharmacist suggested it when you asked what non-habit forming drugs there are to treat anxiety that work immediately).
I've been using this for years to potentiate opiates because it's awesome like that, but I did suggest it to my sister when she get off benzos because she has panic disorder, and it did work for her.
Btw, Atarax is hydroxyzine hcl and Vistaril is hydroxyzine pamoate- Vistaril seems to work better for my purposes, but they both work and are pretty similar.
-yawkaw
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brenda1231
Journeyman
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Paxil CR...welp, SSRI's do work for a lot of people, so you may want to try it. Just know that Paxil does have some nasty withdrawals for a lot of people. Check out this page: http://www.quitpaxil.info/ for something your doctor might not want to tell you.
Funny, I just came across that link on my own the other day and bookmarked it.
I have been on and off paxil for years.
I have 'come off' of it 3 or 4 times, no problems.
Decided to get off it again a few weeks ago and I have been experiencing all kind of crazy feelings, both physical and emotional. I should send that link to hubby and to Mom in law. They both think I am nuts and there are no w/d from Paxil.
Be sure to really think about that one before beginning it.
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Cheers,
B~
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Curtisd3
Newbie
Reged: 01/29/04
Posts: 49
Loc: Michigan
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You probably know from reading about various anti-depressants/anxiety drugs that it may take a few tries to find one that works for you and it'll take 3-4 weeks before they take full effect. Regarding your valium use: when you first went to NA someone probably said,"Don't try to straighten everything out at once." Focus on one thing at a time. I'm not a doctor however, I personally wouldn't worry too much about the valium at this point. Maybe try to taper down to 20mg a day within the next year and get off the weed--something like that. We alcoholics/addicts like to fix our lives overnight when it took us years to get to F-ed up.
Again, best wishes!
Curtisd3
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1241
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
...Your doctor cannot discuss any information concerning you to another doctor without a signed written release from you. ...
Not so. Your doctor does not need your permission to discuss any controlled substance prescriptions that were written for you by him (or her) and also by one or more other doctors. Your doctor can find out if you are getting controlled substances from another doctor by asking the pharmacy who filled his or her scrip, if you had them both filled at the same place. Far from needing your permission, the pharmacist may even have a legal *duty* to inform the two (or more) doctors, and they are under no obligation to tell you about it. If you want to keep things confidential from your original doctor, you should use a totally different pharmacy for the second doctor and certainly don't use health insurance to pay for it. If you get controlled substances from more than one doctor and use insurance to pay for the medicine, the insurance company will usually call both doctors. The health insurance company or the other doctor is free to disclose your controlled substance scrips and the diagnosis codes for prescribing them without your permission if you are obtaining controlled substances from more than one source. HIPAA does not interfere with any information gathering needed to enforce the laws on controlled substances. If you live in a state with electronic prescription monitoring, most of the programs allow any doctor or pharmacist providing you with C-IIs to just log on to a state computer system and see all your C-II scrips.
Once an insurance claim for a doctor's visit or prescription is paid for with health insurance it goes into the huge databank of the Medical Information Bureau (MIB) ... and stays there. If you ever go to try to get health insurance as a self-employed person, it will all be there in black and white and they can charge you very high rates for insurance if it raises any red flags.
I think it was HIPAA that gave people the right to get a copy of their MIB file. A few years ago, they wouldn't give it to you. Now it costs $10. If there's any chance that you're going to want to buy health insurance on your own in your lifetime, be very careful what you charge to your health insurance. Even things like long-ago depression or panic disorder can easily double your health insurance premiums and they can make it impossible to ever buy disability insurance on your own at a reasonable rate.
If you tell your PCP that you're a benzo drug addict, he or she will probably put that diagnosis code into your MIB file and it can haunt you for the rest of your life.
I'm sorry to read that you can't afford to pay for a second doctor (and meds) out of your own pocket, but probably anything you can think of would be better for you than charging two different doctors and their scrips to your health insurance. Stick with NA and use whatever "home remedies" it takes.
Trampy
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PlyrLacy
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/29/01
Posts: 242
Loc: Mid-Atlantic, USA
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meddog ... first I have to commend you for bringing an extremely sensitive, personal issue to the board. That took a lot of courage in this environment. It's also admirable that you admit to these issues, that you recognize the effect this has on your wife and are willing to work toward improvment. WOW ... I salute you! 
And to Curtisd3 ... Congratulations on your sobriety! Excellent ... 7 years. That is a wonderful achievement and you should be very proud! 
yawhaw3 ... as usual, you have provided excellent advice. Top knotch. I love reading your posts! 
meddog ... I agree with yawhaw3 and believe that your choice of words with any physician can easily make the difference between successful treatment and harmful medical documentation, which, as you stated, will follow you for the rest of your life. Addiction, in a medical record, is difficult if not impossible to overcome.
I'm all for honesty with your physician if it provides you with the medical help you need but reality usually shows us otherwise. An example would be that most of us agree that doctors have problems handling many pain issues today and are more controlled by outside sources than by their own medical training when treating chronic illnesses. However, there are instances where it can be very dangerous to withhold information during a physical. There are times when explaining personal feelings to the doc can yield exactly what you are needing to help with the anxiety issue. You may be pleasantly surprised. Yes, doctors can be hesitant to treat anxiety (just like they are with pain) but most are at least open to the available treatments.
So many of us investigate medications, visit our doctor and state that we'd like to try this and see if it helps. But there is always the possibility that your PCP may have another medication in mind which would do a much better job. And then if he were wrong, you could approach him with "I'd really like to try XXX medication. There have been many positive things said about it." You are the only one who knows how your doctor approaches prescribing. I would however hesitate to begin with this approach.
Your life is not in an easy place right now. Yet you should be proud that you are facing these life events. NA is an outstanding organization and second to none assisting willing participants. I feel that you are in good hands. I do caution you to be honest and open to the process. This is a program that does not work well when the true issue or issues are withheld and not dealt with. And it's very difficult to deal with one addiction while continuing another.
You are taking a medication which is very dangerous to quit cold-turkey. The only method which is safe is a physician-supervised taper if you are unable to wean yourself off. You certainly are not alone in this. It is very difficult to slowly decrease the amount of medication on your own. But I would hope that your doctor has a medication you could take during the weaning period which would control your symptoms and keep the urge to fall back on valium at bay.
Support, support, support ... that is the key to recovery. You are on the right road and the ability to admit that you have a problem is the beginning!! Good luck in your future. May you always be comfortable!
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"Lacy"
Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt and dance like no one is watching.
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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I want to say Thank You to everyone who responded to my thread.
And all of the positive support and empathy has done more to strengthen my resolve to "do the right thing." I also want to say if anyone reading this feels some of the same feelings and it offends them or brings out some of your inner demons bubbling to the surface, then I am truly sorry. But if it helps anyone as well, Best of luck.
Ok, I WILL get flamed for this comment... but I really feel that more links to recovery groups ect, and resposible information on addiction should be placed in the support forum. We all know MANY of the users of this forum are not people without health insurance having trouble with high drug prices or jaded over cautious doc's and just want to score a fix of some sort. I know, I know... BAD meddog for saying that....sorry
Thank you dugbuyers.com community.
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xiolablue15
Journeyman
Reged: 03/17/04
Posts: 59
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i couldn't have said it better myself!
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Quote:
but I really feel that more links to recovery groups ect, and resposible information on addiction should be placed in the support forum. We all know MANY of the users of this forum are not people without health insurance having trouble with high drug prices or jaded over cautious doc's and just want to score a fix of some sort. I know, I know... BAD meddog for saying that....sorry
I agree that due to the inherent nature of opioids and benzodiazepines to cause physiological and psychological dependence when used for any length of time, a forum to discuss dependence and addiction issues would be appropriate. However, this has been suggested more times than I can count and DB administrators ALWAYS shoot it down. I doubt this time will be any different and I definitely think this whole thread will get scrubbed due to the discussion about addiction.
Really too bad, but here are Drug Buyers Message Board Rules ...
And within them it does state: Rules 15 & 16
"...Addiction and recovery are not to be discussed at our board. If you need help with addiction and recovery this is not a board for you. At DrugBuyers.com we do not ask what are the medical needs of visitors and we do not want to know. Our sites is about buying prescription drugs. We assume a legitimate need. Any post that indicates the poster is a drug abuser or recreational drug user will result in that user being banned."
I'm not the board police, here, just letting many of you new members know what the rules are and that they are enforced...it doesn't mean I agree with them!
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SandyFeet
Newbie
Reged: 03/20/04
Posts: 29
Loc: The land of mint juleps, honys...
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"Once an insurance claim for a doctor's visit or prescription is paid for with health insurance it goes into the huge databank of the Medical Information Bureau (MIB) ... and stays there. If you ever go to try to get health insurance as a self-employed person, it will all be there in black and white and they can charge you very high rates for insurance if it raises any red flags."
........................................................
This is an unfortunate fact. Not only will any previous medical diagnosis affect your ability to obtain affordable health insurance in the future, it can also prevent you from obtaining life insurance.
I am extremely careful what I disclose to my PCP....it is sad that we live in a social climate that stigmatizes mental illness, addiction, depression, ect.
Insurance is organized crime, as far as I am concerned.
PS. I haven't figured out the quote feature yet...
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"When you can't change the direction of the wind--adjust your sails."
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
I agree that due to the inherent nature of opioids and benzodiazepines to cause physiological and psychological dependence when used for any length of time, a forum to discuss dependence and addiction issues would be appropriate. However, this has been suggested more times than I can count and DB administrators ALWAYS shoot it down. I doubt this time will be any different and I definitely think this whole thread will get scrubbed due to the discussion about addiction"
I did receive a PM that hinted I should not talk about addiction for these reasons and I understand some of the issues the mods would purge this thread and feel this way. As adults (we assume)
who found this site, that mesns we prolly know how to use google and can find other sources for help. I just get a bad sense of karma from it, if you know what I mean. I guess I just started to speak from my soul and coulndt help myself. I am guilty of skimming through the rules and I will re-read through them.
I am Sorry DB mods.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I wouldn't sweat it, meddog. It's just a message board and I doubt the mods will ban you for this topic, but the thread will probably get deleted. Just don't be surprised if it disappears without a trace!
Have a great night!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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speaking from personal experiemce i went into rehab 20 yeras ago for valium and i will say it was a living hell. unless you have a strong support system and i mean someone to hand those pills to you when its time i would never advise going off valium like this. i was taking about 80 mgs a day and did not even know the danger i was in until i went to a care unit and realized i could have died trying to stop it all at once. its a mean withdrawl and i am not trying to scare you, but that 60 days in rehab is in my mind like it was yesterday. a na sponser is great support but you need a little more help than that. please keep us posted and dont do this alone.
carol
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Julz
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 223
Loc: NJ Shore
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Meddog~
You might want to consider seeing an Addiction Specialist, as opposed to your regular PCP. I'm sure you know as well as the rest of us here that "normal" doctors just don't handle those of us with addiction issues well, if at all. At least with an Addiction Specialist, you can let your hair down and not have to watch every dang word that comes out of your mouth! At any rate, I wish you the best in whichever/whomever you choose to see. Keep us posted.
Peace,
Julz
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Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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ML63
Member
Reged: 02/08/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate New York
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In my opinion, you should be honest with your doctor. You've already taken positive steps to deal with your problems and coming clean with your PCP is an important phase of the process. In not being honest you'd risk derailing and/or shortchanging the recovery you've worked towards so far. Of course, that's easy for me to say just sitting here typing advice. Good Luck!
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meddog
Newbie
Reged: 02/22/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Midwest USA
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I just want to update anyone interested that I went to my PCP and broke down and told him the truth even though I intended not to. Except I did not use the word addiction, I used "Dependent".
And you know what? He UNDERSTOOD and had compassion. I now have an appointment with my local hospital next week to determine if I should go through a 9 day detox and in the mean time to drop dosage down to 5-10 mg. My Doc assured me he would not hold this indiscretion of mine against me and just told me he hoped I learned my lesson to stay away from self medicating.
He also assured me that if I do get a serious injury, ect that he wouldn't make me suffer because I revealed to him I became "dependent" on valiums. He Also wanted me to warn any other "friends" (means you) to please take benzo detox seriously and don't do it alone, you can die. I never mentioned where I got them, but he seemed to know what was up and made a very ugly statement about OP's. And also asked me to please trust him more from now on. Oh and he refered me to a psych who could bill my insurance in a more subtle manner. (whatever that means.) Gonna check that out as well. Thanks again friends for the the good advice.
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