johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 358
Loc: great lakes
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I am looking for some advice/ thoughts on why I fail hydro holidays.
I can never take a holiday more than 2 days three tops. unless it is a forced one either i ran out or waiting for refill.
my sister told me that is very very difficult to stop any opiate when you still have alot of pain. she said the body the mind 'craves' the opiate to mask or lessen the pain.
I am in the 2 day of a holiday from oxy because i ran out. i am doing very well right now because i have very little pain. I do and have taken vicoprofen as needed but it is no where nere the dosage (vicoprofen) i was at before surgery.
any thoughts on this is it try that a holiday is not very succsesful when in pain?? will i have any W/D now that i am 2 days out from oxy??
johng
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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johng-
I think the real issue is that when you are in pain AND going through withdrawal, you probably tend to obsess about it more than you would without the extra pain involved.
I know from experience that withdrawal/cravings are intensified when I am unable to focus on something other than how uncomfortable I am, how tired I am, etc.
As chronic pain patients, I think we are taught to be constantly aware of our discomfort so we are better able to convey our pain levels to our doctors. So it makes sense that we tend to focus more on our aches and pains than others may.
Emotional response to pain/discomfort has been documented to make things worse. It's why the opiates are successful at treating a plethora of things from physical pain to emotional pain--they temper our EMOTIONAL response to it. It's not that they kill the pain, they just make us not care as much about it.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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i cant speak about oxy becuz i have never taken it, but if you are using vicoprofren hydro i do not think you will have much discomfort becuz you have hydro in your stystem. i think nighshade is correct about the medication covering up emotional issues so we dont care about too much. when i tapered i was obsessed with all bodily functions. every ache every trip to the bathroom every move i made. if i read a book went outside watched a movie did SOMETHING other then think about why i dont have my hydro i felt better. our minds play tricks on us and i think i made my taper harder than it had to be. i was so dramatic but i am a big baby and hate any discomfort at all. well here i am hydro free i miss my best freind but i am a different person in all aspects. i am not a chronic pain sufferer so i ran out of excuses to use hydro. i kept it going as long as i could but it just didnt fly anymore. im glad to hear you are not in much pain right now. with my taper i still have 2 large refills calling my name but to go thru all the drama and worrying about running out its best to stay where i am at. when i look in the mirror my eyes look different i look human to me again. no more glazed, pinned dark eyes, thats just what happened to me. opiate use in my opinion robs you of your soul if that makes sense. it made me not care anout anything made me mean made me think things i never even thought about before. i am just a bad opiate patient. stay pain free and good luck with your holiday
carol
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
when i look in the mirror my eyes look different i look human to me again. no more glazed, pinned dark eyes, thats just what happened to me. opiate use in my opinion robs you of your soul if that makes sense. it made me not care anout anything made me mean made me think things i never even thought about before. i am just a bad opiate patient. stay pain free and good luck with your holiday
carol,
Your statements really hit home for me. I am in the process of a hydro taper by choice. I did start taking hyrdo for legitimate reasons, but hate the person it is making me and the way it has turned on me and made me feel aweful. You give me hope that I can one day too be free of hydro and hopefully treat my pain in non-narcotic ways. I want my life back. The clear minded, healthy one.... Kudos for your strength in staying off hyrdo.....
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 466
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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I tend to believe that it's difficult for you to stop taking the opiates when you're in pain because, like anybody who is in pain, we WANT it to go away- who wants the pain? One other thing to consider is that (as I've described it to my doctor) the meds want to be taken. Your body gets used to your taking them and that's the addiction/dependence. People hate that word- addiction, but that's what dependence is. Anyhow, one of the "withdrawal" symptoms is the pain that you take the med to relieve. It's psychosomatic. Good luck. The only thing that has worked for me is going cold turkey- there was no tapering- not even an option- for me. Anyhow, I'm now down to 20 Percocet a month. I only take it on the weekends as it keeps me awake at night and I can't go to work after not sleeping  Good luck to you all.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 416
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Grecye, I am glad I am not the only one that has that side effect. I experience that both with hydro and percocet. Its hard for me to quit because everytime I return to my doc he either wants to give me scripts for 100 percocet 10/325 or 100 Lortab 10/500 with 4 refills.
How do I stop when I have so MUCH medicine laying around??????
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CeeBee
Member
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 187
Loc: garden state
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Voyager,
I don't think I could ever quit if I were you. Where I live you may get a script for percocet (maybe 25) and boy, they do not want to refill it. And for me percocet is the med I would choose if I had a choice. Greycie your comments are right on the mark, good for you with the cold turkey thing, I try to taper and it really doesn't work for me.
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 102
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I'm starting a voluntary taper today because one of my dear friends ran out and is still experiencing w/ds 2 weeks later! It scared me enough to think about tapering. I don't think I'll by hydro free because there is still so much pain, but the tolerance issue... have to take more to get the desired result, etc. I have taken hydro for a little more than a year though and I don't feel like I "don't care" about stuff, it's just the opposite. I don't feel doped up, but I must be? and maybe I just don't realize it?
I guess we'll see. I'm starting my fast taper today to get down to a lower doseage with the goal of lowering my tolerance. I'll let you know how my body reacts.
K
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CeeBee
Member
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 187
Loc: garden state
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Kayleigh, Good luck with your taper, I must try also. I rarely feel "doped up" either just the opposite, but I sure do feel horrible if I don't take the hydro either. I should only feel pain from my condition not the other crummy feelings.
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 102
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Thanks CeeBee! I'm really nervous because there is the "I still have to function even if I don't feel well" issue. I have 5 small children that still need caring for, so I'm going to take it as slow as I can and just try and listen to my body, take a walk, a bath, whatever will help.
I did a fast taper once and I would wake up shivering, soaked in sweat... ugh! Nice and slllooooowwwww! LOL Hey maybe we can be "taper buddies"? 
K
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STARCHILD007
Journeyman
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 72
Loc: EAST COAST
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IT DEPENDS ON THE DOSAGE YOU WERE ON AND HOW LONG YOU WERE ON IT. ALL THIS HYPE OF HOW OC IS THE NEW HIEROIN IS REDICULOUS. THE WITHDRAWLS FRON OC ARE FAR LESS THAN EVEN CODIEN.THE SECOND DAY AFTER STOPPING IS USUALLY WHEN YOU START TO GET SOME WITHDRAWL SYMP. FAIRLY MILD AND LAST FOR ABOUT 48HRS.(ITS THE GASTRIC SYMPTOMS THAT ARE A PAIN) TAKE SOME AMODIOM AD AND YOU SHOULD BE FINE.GOOD LUCK. STEVE007
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CeeBee
Member
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 187
Loc: garden state
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Kayleigh, 5 small children? Wow, yes you must really take it slow, I know the feeling of not being able to cope or do anything. Sure we can be taper buddies. I hate those sweaty, anxious feelings, and for me the depression is the worst.
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 466
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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Steve, you can't possibly speak for everyone, lol. Sorry, but as most of us know, we're all individuals and the impacts of the drugs are different for each and every one of us. Where one person can stop cold turkey, another person has to taper as where another just can't let it go at all. The same as I'm the type of person who can't sleep on narcotics whereas another person may sleep just fine.
Food for thought.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 466
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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Voyager- wow! That's a lot of medication! I only sometimes WISH my doc. would give me that many, wlol. Anyhow- when I was getting hydro (and I have the same reaction w/hydro, also) from an OP and had this Gawd Awful amount (the 100 10/500's)- I had to give them to somebody I trusted so that I wouldn't take them. That's how I quit cold turkey. I couldn't do it w/ the meds sitting in front of me, so I totally understand what you're going through. Oh, and as for leaving my meds with somebody I trusted wouldn't give them back to me until I'd gone through my withdrawals- that's not always a good idea either, lol. Gave mine to my sis who ended up "dropping them" in a sink full of soapy water? Two full bottles, mind you, lol. Be careful, but know that NOBODY could cold turkey (self included) if the meds were in front of you every day. And good luck!
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 358
Loc: great lakes
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Post deleted by johng
Edited by Melody (03/10/04 06:05 AM)
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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johng-
I withhold personal judgment here, but have to say that most doctors would consider what you have done as abuse. You took more than prescribed (presumably without prior permission from the prescriber.) Again, I am NOT passing any judgment on you personally as I believe you had reasons for doing so. However, you went about it the wrong way and most doctors will not be willing to "risk it."
There are really only a few viable opitons in your case--especially if you believe you would have continued trouble with controlling your intake of opioid medications in the future.
First of all, post-operative pain will generally NOT qualify as justifiable continued use of narcotic medications. Most docs give only a few days' worth of pain meds for ANY surgery after you leave the hospital.
So, you can apply to an OP for your medications (if you have a documentable physical condition requiring pain meds)...but this is expensive. You'd still have to be in control of your intake or you would still have trouble making the meds last all month.
You can go through a chemical dependency treatment program. Again, depending on your specific medical complaints, this may be a problem in the long-term if you continue to need narcotic pain meds. However, I personally feel most doctors would not view you in a poor light once you completed and maintained a CD program. It may actually give you some credibility. But this is risky and you would HAVE to seriously evaluate your pain med use and make a personal decision about the motivations behind it.
You can apply to become enrolled in a methadone program. But, once again, the "addict" stigma will be an issue for future pain issues. In addition, methadone itself prevents pain meds from working very well.
You can also appeal to your PM or PCP about the changes in your pain. Let them know that what you have been prescribed is no longer effective. Perhaps a long-acting narcotic would be appropriate. Perhaps an opiate contract would also be in order and would hold you to certain rules of being on opioids.
It's a tough place to be. Again, I sincerely want to express my empathy for your situation and to let you know that I DO CARE and do not see you as a "junkie."
If I can help you at all, please do not hesitate to PM.
 
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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D2003
Member
Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 193
Loc: Texas
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Be honest with your wife, and allow her to help you either taper down to a lower level or to taper down to quit. Any withdrawal has a much better chance of success if you have a decent support system around you. I've done forced withdrawals due to late arrivals of my meds, and they are sheer h*ll without some kind of support system. (My buds on another board supplied the support I needed to get through that 5 days of horror.) Be honest with her, and admit you have a problem tapering down, either to a lower level or to quit.
Hand her the meds and tell her just how much you are currently taking, and whether you are looking to taper down to a lower level or to quit. Let her be the one that hands you your meds. Make sure she keeps them with her at all times so you are not tempted to sneak and extra one or two. This is what partners are about, supporting you in whatever it is you are doing. I believe with her help, you can slowly, but successfully taper to the level you want.
If you are looking to taper to a lower level, decide what that level is and then s-l-o-w-l-y taper down to it, giving yourself a few to several days between each drop. From what I understand of your post, you are taking quite a high dosage so a slow taper (with time to adjust between each drop) is really your only option if you wish to successfully get down to a lower level or to quit completely. Your wife will be the best support you can have. If she is strong enough to say no to you if you ask for an extra pill or two, all the better.
But it is time to be honest with her. If your marriage is pretty solid, yes....she will be miffed or even angry that your dosage has gotten so out of control. (And the fact you have hidden it from her for so long. She will have noticed something regardless. Most partners are like that.) But....if she truly loves you, she will help you get to the goal you are seeking. You simply have to have faith in her and allow her to assist you in your taper. Don't overlook the support available in this site either. Many of us have tapered or withdrawn and know how it feels. We can help support you as you reach for your goals.
The very first thing you need to do is sit down with your wife and explain what is going on. From there you can together make the decisions needed to reach whatever outcome you are desiring.
D2003
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JohnTaylor
Stranger
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 2
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Well....well...well (says a Draven)
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starchild
Newbie
Reged: 03/02/04
Posts: 31
Loc: Northeast
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Hello all,
I took oxys for over 2 years and now was just taken off of them. I have been taken off of codeine and back in the day other things..
But the oxy was the worst. Not only does the mental effect of not having it kick in, but the more you have taken- the more your body desentitizes the pain so you need it more. Not only the stomach whole body aches, the leg/arm twitches that kept you up all night tossing and turning. It was then I started to realize that this really sucked!! So best of wishes. I have been off for over 2 months and I would still love to have that script filled again, although what the above said about looking in mirror needs to stick in my head then! Oh well.
Methadone did help. I got some for a week and it helps out with making you at least feel "normal" and able to function. It did not hinder the vikes that the doctor put me on. And going from one to another is just incomparable.
AH, but I digress and our bodies all work different and some works for others and others work for some.. Hence all the posts here contradicting everything.
Take it all in and the best of luck to you!
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"All who wander are not lost" - J.R. Tolkien
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safe13
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 215
Loc: ny
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If someone posts on WD's they should have first hand experience, to say OC is less WD than codine is a not funny joke, if a person is a 12 pill a day user from hydro and up and has been doing so for over 8 months you are in trouble if you want to stop. I have made some very bad decisions in my life and can say {not proudly) I am an expert on being in a bad place with pain meds, I am now on the other side of the fence and was very hard to get here. If anyone is where I once was and wants to stop please PM me and I will tell you how to get to the other side
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doodlenoodle
Stranger
Reged: 06/25/02
Posts: 8
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Hey all,
I've been a lurker here for almost two years and never really a poster but I feel I have something to say. Let me say I'm sorry in advance for the length of this post but I need to give you background. I started taking hydrocodone for sports related low back pain when I was 30 (I am 41 now). At first it seemed like a wonder drug. I was a gym rat and loved tennis and basically most sport activities. Well of course after a while my tolorance built up and I had to take more and more until I was addicted. I hated the thought of being ruled by a tiny pill so I searched for an answer for my back problem. Along comes a new procedure called an IDET. Simple procedure where they put a small cathater in your disc, heat it up to kill nerve endings in your disc, killing back pain. Sounds great huh? Well there were complications getting the cathater in my disc and I ended up in the hospital unable to walk or even sit up for that matter. Apparently I got an infected disc and it messed me up pretty badly. While in the hospital they shot me with dilaudid every 4 hours and when I was released they put me on 150 10/500 every 25 days. Which was more meds than I had been taking before the procedure. Ironic huh  The pain I had was severe for almost 4 years and in that time I discovered internet medicine. Without going into detail lets just say i was taking WAY more than I should. Now here we are at the present. I got sick of these pills running my life, you know watching for the UPS driver, counting days to see if you can make it to the next delivery, saying to myself " well, I'll take a few extra now and skip afternoon medicine" ya right!! By the way my wife has scoliosis and I showed her how easy the pain could be gone with medicine so she is in the same boat. I am now on day 14 of quitting cold turkey (with the help of Ultram, thank god for it) and I'm here to tell you you are dreaming if you think 48 hours is enough to detox from this. I feel worse now than I did after 5 days without meds. If you are serious about getting away from hydro you better prepare for 3 to 4 weeks of withdrawl. and I'm not talking to you 2 to 3 pill a day people. only we know ourselves how much we are taking. By the way, I never took these for any king of pleasure or high. As you know pain is a terrible thing and hydro DOES help better that anything I have ever taken. As for my pain level, it is greater than I had hoped but my life and my liver are more important. I hope and pray I can be successful as with the new laws comming i'm afraid some of us are going to be caught with our pants down and one day lose internet pain meds all together. By the way, I don't think the DEA has given ANY thought to how many lives it would effect by cutting off some peoples only source of meds, can you imagine how many people would be in a forced withdrawl if that happens? I think the hospital would be flooded with people if it does happen. Anyway for any of you that want to take a "holiday" or quit altogether. Ultram is a lifesaver, it won't make you feel normal but at least it will let you function. Sorry this was so long.
Lee
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D2003
Member
Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 193
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Well....well...well (says a Draven)
I see you found the other board I frequent, John.
D2003
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renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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What board is that?
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STARCHILD007
Journeyman
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 72
Loc: EAST COAST
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WELL, WELL, WELL.... WHEN PIGS FLY,EH. LOL. FROM EXPIERIENCE I CAN TELL YOU (AND FROM DATA BACK IN THE 30'S AND 40'S WHEN CODINE AND SUCH WERE OVER THE COUNTER LEGAL, THAT CODINE IS ONE OF THE MOST ADDICTIVE, AND PAINFULL TO COME OF OF AFTER LONG TIME USE. BUT METHADONE CAN BE WORSE THAN THEM ALL. SOME PEOPLE STILL HAVE WITDRAWL SYMPTOMS EVEN AFTER 30-40 DAYS AFTER COMING OF OF IT. IF YOUR UNDER A DR.'S CARE STILL THE BEST WAY TO COME OFF SOMETHING IS TO TAPER OFF. HAVE YOUR DR. PUT YOU ON A WEEKLY PRESCRIPTION WITH A ONE PILL A-DAY LESS PROGRAM. BELIEVE ME, IF YOU JUST DROP ONE PILL A DAY (YOU WONT EVEN NOTCE THE CHANGES HARDLY) WITHIN ONE MONTH YOU WILL PRETTY MUCH BE OFF OF THE MEDICATION. EVEN ONE PILL EVERY OTHER DAY WORKS GREAT.
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D2003
Member
Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 193
Loc: Texas
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One I can't mention on this site. It's a wee forum, but very 'family' feeling. I've mentioned this board to the wonderful folks over there and it seems one of them finally tracked me here, even though I use a very different user name.
D2003
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renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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Can you PM me with that info?
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 358
Loc: great lakes
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hi everyone. I took the plunge and told my spouse about my problem weening of the oxy. I then went with her to the MD surgon and pored my guts out. he and my wife have put me on a taper set up. I have gone 24 hours now a little W/D. my other has the pills only gives me what is secduled so I think this one will suceed.
All think +++++ for me
thanks
johng
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Good for you Johng for coming "clean" so to speak and getting professional help with this. You're doing it the right way and I bet you'll succeed with this "holiday!" Best of luck, sending positive thoughts your way and please keep us up to date.
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 358
Loc: great lakes
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Hi everyone
it is now more than 48 hours... this is the point where I always fail holidays.. I feel some W/Ds because I cut my intake by 50%. but I can handle them sooo far.
I also made an appoitment with a Pain doctor. I cant aford it but they office manger is willing to trade for service from my small bussiness for office visits.
YEA
my thanks to starchild and skyqueen and night shade
johng
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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hi there johng, i am in your rooting section here !!
carol
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