johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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I have noticed that there is a certin placebo effect in regards to nsaids by doctors. They love to say this 'new one' will relive all of you ( and they hide the truth) by saying' "by the way it will reduce swelling at the same tim we can kill two birds with one stone" I propose that this is a placebo effect.
My mother swars by vioxx. she looks better feels better. but she has never taken opiates. I think the strogest she got was darvon. me on the other hand after a short my pmd pushes nsaids so I went to a ortho. he looked at my x rays and I have never used nsaids alone alwys in conjuction with opiates.
I think the placebo effect works for opiate nieav persons. the bode gets use to the strong rleif given by opiates. My favorate is when the pmd said to me here is a nsaid works wonders but it takes a week or two to kick in. OK what do I do in the interm. the docotors have got to get with pain relief.
In my area most docotors have delvoped "Health Care providers For the Compassioate Treatment Of Pain" and they give you a flyer telling you all about it. it is worthless most doctors wont proscribe what is 90 %on the flyer. because they are all opiates.
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 415
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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I find that NSAIDS such as vioxx and celebrex actually WORK FAR BETTER than most any hydro or percocet that is prescribed to me. My doc prescribes me 60 celebrex 200 mg(have taken the vioxx previously with good success) and either 100 percocet 10/325 or 10/500 lortabs each month.
The best way I can explain it is that the opiates don't really stop the pain. They just kind of alter my perception to pain (IE I am just stoned so I don't care about the pain).
The NSAIDS actually STOP the pain.
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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your lucky I don't get the other just the nsaid's
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Well said, Voyager.
Opiates only alter our emotional response to pain (we just don't CARE how much it hurts) vs most NSAIDS actually relieving some symptoms by reducing inflammation or through specific action as COX or prostaglandin inhibitors. Some NSAIDS actually kill prostate cancer cells, so don't write them off as useless!
NSAIDs, for me, work great for muscle cramps and joint pain associated with arthritis. They even help with some dental pain issues.
It is very important to treat the cause whenever possible instead of just masking the symptoms.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Princeton
Newbie
Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Frozen Tundra
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After having my 1st child I was in such intense pain I took OTC anti-inflams for an extended period of time. The result from this was a visit to the ER and after many different tests & finally an upper GI we found that they had thinned the lining of my stomach causing to this day stomach problems.
Once the Coxx II (Vioxx & Celebrex) came out I was prescribed them (not at the same time - I started with Vioxx and then moved to Celebrex once the Vioxx proved not very effective). While I did receive a SLIGHT change in my pain level I could never ever understand the commercials on TV that showed the old folks rippin' up the dance floor after taking their daily dose of Celebrex. Even though the result for me was minimal, I COULD tell there was some slight effectiveness in the reduction of the swelling. Actually after taking the Celebrex for several years my insurance company up and decided just 3 months ago that they no longer cover the Coxx II brands for anyone. Their new policy is that each person needs to start back on square one with a regular anti-inflamitory and once several types failed you they'd consider covering the Vioxx or Celbrex you had already been taking. Frankly I felt that ending up back in an ER, having a bleeding stomach, severe pain and racking up thousands of dollars of testing would not actually be very cost effective, they apparently didn't find to much intelligence in my opinion and still denied my doctors numerous requests. Needless to say, I no longer take any type of anti-inflamitory and because unfortunately neither the Vioxx or Celebrex made that much of a difference I have not sought to find it elsewhere.
I'm honestly surprised (and truely really happy) that there are actually people out there that take these meds and acually have them WORK. I really thought the commercials were a bunch of hooey. I think my problem with the ineffectiveness of the COX II's were more than likely due to the fact that most of my pain comes from something other than inflamation, the oesteoarthritis is there and quite active, but nowhere near as severe as the pain from my degenerative disc desease.
If you can be comfortable without taking a narcotic DO IT, goodness knows it's much easier to find an anti-inflam and cheaper to boot (unless you're one of those COX II people like I am).
Good luck in finding what you need & have happy pain free days in your future!
Princeton
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so take me as i am this may mean you'll have to be a stronger man rest assured that when
i start to make you nervous and i'm going to extremes tomorrow i will change and today won't mean a thing
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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I have to agree with you, even though it doesn't sound like the voice of reason much.
I've had to contend with, among other things in my life, sudden gout attacks (from age 27 on), and they are, as one person once told me, exquisitely painful.
Doctors sent me crying home with NSAIDS all the time. They worked, but not for the first five or six days. Then the swelling went away and the pain abated. So maybe they worked, but definitely not right away!
Then I got so sick of the pain, and one time I just couldn't take a day off to put my foot up. I decided to work through the pain. I begged for percocet, and by some miracle (it was 2001) got some. I was out of pain 45 minutes later.
Personally, I don't get so stoned from them, now that I get Roxicodone (not for gout, btw). And even when I notice a wee buzz, I really still notice a serious abatement in the pain, rather than develop a detached view to it.
I can still remember the elation that set in when I just felt that gout pain 'melt' away that first time. That in itself was enough to make he happier than anything.
For as long as I've been a patient here in the USA, doctors have been handing me bagfuls of NSAID samples for pain. Bextra, Mobic, Vioxx, Celebrex, Arthrotec, and probably more. In a really bitter display or irony, I once took home twelve boxes of Celebrex samples in a Best if kept off the board Duragesic promotional bag!
Totally wasted on me, but I did take them, rather than toss them in the trash hoping for percocet soon. I gave them a fair chance, many times, and none gave me the relief that narcotics did. So I guess you might say that today I am a bit prejudiced. The Best if kept off the board heartburn didn't help.
This is just one opinion. If there are others who say NSAIDS work wonders I will believe it too. But I must also back up the original poster who thinks that doctors may try to use their placebo effect. But for some of us, the reality is that we need strong, effective, aggressive drugs.
I too have noticed the promises of pain relief in 'just days'. Usually they really do expect me to suffer for a bit longer as the NSAIDS kick in. I guess it's their business how much I want or need to suffer, and since suffering is supposed to build character, I always assume the doc. wants to save my soul or something..
BTW, My current pain doc who treats my constant back pain, recently said I should take up yoga! Thanks, sir, that sounds so much more effective than the Best if kept off the board drugs which have proven to work well for the past year. That's the kind of attitude that has patient scurrying for drugdealers and streetcorners.
Cheers
Red.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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thats just an advil analog that causes cramps and diarea. does nothing for pain that i can tell. i have never had the placebo effect before in my life and do not understand at all how it could possibly exist in other people.
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