Lisa1967
Member
Reged: 10/29/02
Posts: 123
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Hi all,
I have severe degenerative joint disease in almost all my major joints-shoulders,back,neck,knee. I have the hardest time sleeping thru the pain-I have to be practically comatose in order to fall,and stay,asleep I used to take 1 10mg of valium at bedtime,and that helped tremendously. I tok it for about 4 yrs,and never increased my dosage. 1 was always enuff. However,due to my hubby's addiction of both opiates and benzo's,I stopped ordering them thru OP's. This was about 6 mos ago. Since then,my PCP had RX'd ambien& elavil for sleeping.The ambien didnt work. The elavil helps,but she only gives me 30 25mgs-and that's too low of a dose for me-so I need to take 2. Finally,I asked my PM dr to give me something-and initially he was gonna give me ambien,till I told him that doesnt work. So,he gave me 10 Soma's for 5 days use,and said if they help,to let him know NEXT MONTH So what am I supposed to do for the other 20-something days of the month? They are very conservative there,with me I guess because I am only 36,and I guess they don't want to be responsible for me becoming an "addict" But I DO have the bones of an 80 yo,and they DO take that into consideration when they prescribe pain meds. So I can't really complain.
If you guys would give me a "rundown" of what you take to sleep thru the pain,I'd appreciate it.I found the soma's work VERY well-I slept better on them than on the valium(but the valium never made me tired the next day like the somas)
What works for you??
Thanks,
Lisa
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 320
Loc: Midwest
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Soma has been good for me in the past for SHORT TERM insomnia. The problem is that I very quickly developed a tolerance to it, so if you only use it every once in awhile, it should be ok. As always, due to differences in individual body chemistry, "your mileage may vary." Just my .02
Catmom
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 101
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Oh boy, Lisa, I'm sorry you are having this problem. You have this trust issue with your husband so you have to worry about what meds you have in the house etc.
I usually don't take my muscle relaxers AT ALL until bedtime so that I don't build up a tolerance (although I know that can happen too!)
What I do is try and take a minimal amount of hydro for the day and then increase my doseage right before bed with a muscle relaxer and a low dose valium. In other words, 5 mg hydro every 4-6 hours which totals 2.5/3 mgs throught the day with Ibuprofen if the pain is not tolerable. Then right before bed, I'll take 10mgs hydro/1 flexeril/5 mg valium. That usually lasts me most of the night. If I wake in the night with a bunch of pain, then I'll take 10 mgs more hydro with a ibuprofen. I don't feel guilty about doing that either since I try to use my hydro sparingly and goodness knows I can't manage my pain AT ALL if I'm tired. I become a blubbering little baby! LOL
I hope this helps you, sweetie. I wish I could be of more help!
K
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Hi Lisa-
I have the same problem with sleep (and some similar physical problems as you) and it has been the addition of 10-30 mgs of amitryptiline (Elavil) that has made the difference for me. I also take 25 mgs of Trazadone with the Elavil and within 1-2 hours, I am so tired I MUST go to bed. I NEVER suffer from the "hangover" effect on this particular combination.
Additional Elavil is rather easy to obtain and I would be surprised if your doc won't prescribe more for you. If they don't, there are multiple online resources for it at a reasonable price.
I wish you the best!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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turcica
seeker
Reged: 12/21/03
Posts: 312
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Lisa, I too had a terrible time sleeping thru the night. I would wake up and have to reposition with pillows etc. Until, my MD changed my antidepresant from serzone ( which they found was killing people) to Remeron. I take it before sleep and only rarly have a sleepless night. Might be worth looking into. turcica
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turcica
The only failure is not knowing how to be happy
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piper65111
Member
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 105
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Do any of the antidepressants anyone mentioned help with your depression.I take hydro but as winter drags on Im starting to get really down.Any advice?I will probebly go to an therapist soon but I dont have health insurance.Thanks
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kalina919
Journeyman
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Southeast US
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Hi Lisa -
I have gotten really good rest using Trazodone 50mg. I have taken this medication for years. It's very inexpensive cause it's generic (brand is Deseryl) and it's not addictive, so you won't need to increase the dose. My PCP doesn't mind prescribing it because she says it's very safe.
Hope you can get some decent rest soon.
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sam001
Journeyman
Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Nordstroms
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I have a non-pharm suggestion for your consideration. I know a few people, myself included, that have switched to water beds or air beds to help manage joint and back pain. There is not a lot of science to back this up but the bed sales people will tell you about all kinds of studies. I listened to my friends, needed a new bed anyway, and bought an air bed. There are also some interesting foam beds but I don't have any experience with them.
Although I am not pain free, I no longer wake up during the night with pain. I tend to feel better in the morning. When I travel and sleep on regular beds I go back to having sleep disturbances and feeling painful in the morning.
Anyway, just a thought. Good luck.
Sam
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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AMbien is another one of those strange medications like tramadol in the sense that for some it is very strrong and works well and for others it doesnt. for me ambien is literally about 10 times more powerful than xanax or valium. when i take an ambien it puts me in a state of intense drunkeness and after it wears off its hard to remember becaus it was so intense and hard. valium and xanax dont even come close. ambien is like a load of GHB or something. i stay the hell away from it.
Have you tried good old diphenhydramine? Dyphenhydramine is indicated for allergy, motion sickness, and insomnia. it is the drug in benedryl and allergy pills and its also the drug in nytol, tylonal PM, Unisom, and all those over the counter sleeping pills. when its marketed as a sleeping pill its more money than as a allergy pill which is a stupid marketing gimmick because its all the same, 25 mg diphenhydramine per pill. i get 400 of them for 3 dollars. if i bought 400 unisom (exact same thing) id be paying like 70 dollars. everyone should just read lables, that way marketing gimmicks wouldnt work, people would just get what they needed based on fact not lable and the gimmicks would go out of business. anyway if you try diphenhydramine, just get generic allergy tablets at costco or walmart.
the change of bed might be a good idea but make sure it has a money back warrentee.
go on a serch engine and look up "progressive relaxation". it is a mental exercise that some do before entering meditation and sometimes it helps people fall asleep.
another idea is melatonin (n-Acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine). melatonin is completely safe and biofriendly, infact it is produced naturally by the pineal gland and is believe to be involved with telling the brain when its night and time to sleep. it can be combined with diphenhydramine.
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kayleighbear
Member
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 101
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Quote:
when its marketed as a sleeping pill its more money than as a allergy pill which is a stupid marketing gimmick because its all the same, 25 mg diphenhydramine per pill. i get 400 of them for 3 dollars. if i bought 400 unisom (exact same thing) id be paying like 70 dollars. everyone should just read lables, that way marketing gimmicks wouldnt work, people would just get what they needed based on fact not lable and the gimmicks would go out of business.
Same thing with Excedrin and Excedrin "Migraine". It's the same EXACT medicine only it's 2 bucks more per bottle.
K
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 125
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i heard the word trazadone used and i had to reply. my hubby took it one night and he woke up so confused and hungover he was a stranger. that was 50mg. i took it once back in the 70's and never took it again. at least for me it had too many side effects and the next day i was left completely exhausted. needless to say we tossed the trazadone. just our experience.
carol
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Carol-
Trazadone sometimes does cause a "hangover" the first few days of treatment. If we all stopped using opioids because they made us nauseated and constipated the first time we used them, we'd all be in serious trouble!
I like to use as little Trazadone as possible. A half of one 50mg tablet and 20mgs of amitriptyline does wonder for my sleeping without ANY hangover effects from it.
Almost all sleep meds will give you that "confused" feeling if you don't sleep for a solid 6 hours or so--especially if you wake up for the phone or something else in the middle of the night.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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carrigaline
Journeyman
Reged: 01/22/03
Posts: 82
Loc: So Cal
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Medication affects us all differently. I took trazadone for a while several years ago to help me sleep. It worked great for me. For the first few mornings after taking it I did feel a degree of disorientation. It was annoying but not disabling. Within a week of taking it, the "hangover" feeling went away. I had no problem after that and was able to sleep very well. When I no longer needed to take it I was able to do so without experiencing any withdrawal symptoms. My current PCP does not have a problem prescribing it for me if I need it again.
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Barryh
Journeyman
Reged: 01/29/04
Posts: 51
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i take paxill and trazadone for depression, when i 1st starting taking trazadone i felt hungover in am too, but not anymore
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2muchpain
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 274
Loc: USA
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I had the same problem with trazadone. I had miss work because I was so hungover, sick and completely disoriented. I didn't give it a second chance. Down the toilet it went!
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pcurry
Stranger
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 13
Loc: Ventura, Ca.
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I agree with tone, my doctor put me on Ambien (10 mg), a couple of years ago, to replace the valiums I was taking to get to sleep (stress related). They would knock me down and out in about 20 mins. But if I had to get up before 8-10 hours of sleep I was still groggy. I spoke with the doctor about it and he said to only take half, if I had to get up earlier than 8 hours and half a pill works great. The rest I get is extremly restful.
Some my friends followed suit but they would take 2-3 pills and still not be able to fall asleep but they would be groggy but still to restless to sleep, which was hard for me to understand as half a pill will knock me out at 200 plus lbs. Try a few different sleepers and see what works best for you.
I wish you all a restful night of sleep, nothing heals better.
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"I'm a level 5 vegan, I won't eat anything that cast a shadow."
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jenbabe
Member
Reged: 02/04/02
Posts: 139
Loc: nashville TN
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Hi Lisa,
it really sounds like you are having a tough time. I have tried just about everything in all manner of dosages and combinations and I find it practically impossible to sleep for longer than 4hrs.
I now take 100mg dipenhydramine about 7pm, have a hot shower about 9ish and go to bed about 11. I usually wake up about 3.30am anmd then I take a couple of Zanaflex that help the aches and pains and I gently drift to sleep. I also have one of those adjustable air mattresses which took a bit of getting used to.
I find this combination leaves me feeling refreshed in the morning rather than getting to sleep at the beginning of the night and then just tossing and turning until 8am.
I do have a huge tolerance to meds so whatever way you decide to go please be careful and know your own limitations.
best of luck
jen
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caterzina
Stranger
Reged: 02/14/04
Posts: 11
Loc: new york
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Falling asleep and staying asleeep is something I can fully comprehend. Staying asleep becomes a fearsome thing. I got mine from malaria. Ambien is beloved by American docs because it has no good feeling prior to falling asleep hence thought to avoid addiction. If you nod off feeling good that is bad, I guess. Try a female MD, one who has worked in another country. Vary the medication to avoid tolerance buildup. Have two or three meds and keep them rotating. Ask for a referral to a pain clinic, hold your ground. I would say that a significant other should keep his hands off your meds. Lock them up carefully and take care of yourself. Caterzina
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trex
Journeyman
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Australia
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I don't know if they are even available anymore but Rohypnol will help you sleep through almost anything for 6-8 hours!!
Goodluck!!
If you don't want to use a benzo Imovane (Zopiclone) works fairly well!
Also Phenobarbital 60mg tabs are excellent but if you are taking alot of pain meds it probably isn't a great idea to take phenobarbs.
Just my 2 cents!!
Like I said good luckwith it and all the
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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That's quite a stretch! Rohypnal is banned in the US the last I heard. There are other drugs that are far easier to obtain and even some with no addictive qualities that work very well for sleeping such as Trazadone or amitriptyline, among others.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Lisa1967
Member
Reged: 10/29/02
Posts: 123
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Wow,
I never expected to receive such well-thought,and empathetic replies-thank you!! Right now I am doing just as many of you suggested-alternating meds. I will take the amytriplline(if the pharmacy ever fills it-grrrr),and I have been taking benedryl on the nights I dont have the elavil or soma. Yes,I am aware that benedryl IS the active ingredient in most OTC sleeping meds-so I save MY money too 
I just wish hubby wasnt such a freakin addict-not only do I have to lock up my pills,but God 4bid he "catch" me ordering from OP's again-after all,anyone who takes pills MUST be an addict,right?? They didnt make them for people who NEED them-right??? Yes-my nerves are shot-I could REALLY use a valium these days-I am having the worst nitemares
Thanks all,
Lisa
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