Adrenaline
Journeyman
Reged: 10/05/03
Posts: 50
Loc: USA
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What is the name of the I think its an anti diareal medicine that has trace amounts of opiates in it.
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meowsie
Member
Reged: 12/16/03
Posts: 173
Loc: MA
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Immodium
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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As I understand it, immodium does not contain trace amounts of opiates, but it is in fact actually classed as a "non euphoric" opioid. For some reason the molecules are unable to cross the blood-brain barrier like other opiates/opioids.
I found that very hard to believe when I first read it (right here on DB freeboards!), so I looked it up on google, and it's true. Apparantly this is why Immodium is so effective in w/d, not only with the bowel upsets but in general.
I have personally not put this to the test, but many others have. From what I have seen posted, the dosage during w/d is many times the reccomended dose for diahrea (sp?).
Yoda 8681, you should do a search, there are a number of threads on this topic. Search for "Hydro Holiday" or "Imodium" in all forums, there is a lot of information on the boards relevant to managing hydro withdrawl.
Hope this helps
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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potatoboy is right, and also look up Lomotil. Lomotil has been discussed many times, it's diphenoxylate (a Demerol analog) and atropine (to discourage abuse, especially IV abuse). Lomotil is excellent during withdrawal, and it does cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) in small amounts, but you can really only feel it if you only have a tiny opiate tolerance. You can get it from OP's/IOP's, or ask your doctor for it by name for diarrhea. Be careful, if you take enough to surpress w/d symptoms, you won't be making a bowel movement for a loooong time....
-yawkaw
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hilarylp
Member
Reged: 07/06/02
Posts: 105
Loc: Corporate Droneville
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Lomotil is, in my opinion, the next best discovery since penicillin!!!!!
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kittie74
Board Addict
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 310
Loc: Hollywood
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Lomotil SAVED my life in Mexico.
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NJ_Hoss
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 263
Loc: USA
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Amen, from a man whose innards react so violently when travelling abroad that I can personally give tours of every public restroom in 9 European Capitals. 
Lomitil can be extremely effective, but its added ingredient, Atropine, also is very helpful in lowering the overall motility of the bowel. It is also one of the reasons why Lomotil is so lowly scheduled, as too much Atropine carries enough negative effects to mitigate abuse.
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Anybody recall what has been recomended as a dose size, when taking either Immodium or Lomotil for withdrawl rather than for diahrea? In other words how many tabs does it take?
I remember a couple of people posting that they were eating pretty large numbers of Immodium tabs, like dozens, if that's possible, during withdrawl. And they reported minimal w/d symptoms as a result.
I am also wondering what if any side effects (other than constipation) might occur when taking large amounts of these meds?
I should take my own advice and do a search, but I'm not planning a hydro holiday at the moment. Plus I'm lazy.
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NJ_Hoss
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 263
Loc: USA
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As the level of intestinal revolt is likely to depend on the severity of the withdrawal, it is best to start with an initial "loading dose", as recommended on the product packaging, and then titrate to a point at which the Immodium begins to take effect.
I wouldn't recommend potentially complciating the already taxing effects of withdrawal by using any more substances than necessary to mitigate its effects.
Best of luck!
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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potatoboy,
Immodium- how much to take is just a function of your tolerance, I've seen people take a box (24 pills) in one day- and have read posts of people taking more. All they reported were no stomach pain/no bowel movements...didn't minimize w/d otherwise, but they did have a big opiate habit. DO NOT do this if your tolerance doesn't allow- start small, maybe 4-5 pills and see where to go from there. You don't want to overconstipate yourself and end up having to go to the ER, then explain why you had to take so much Immodium. Also stay away from Immodium Advanced, that stuff has the same active ingredient as Gas-X (simethicone), which is also in detergent. All it does is change the size of gas bubbles- it is useless for withdrawal purposes.
Lomotil- depends on how much you can tolerate atropine. Definitely start small (also, 4 pills) and go from there. Atropine is very uncomfortable for some people, easy for others. I just get a headache, though I've never taken as much as I read some people here and on other boards do.
Atropine poisoning is dangerous, so the Lomotil must be taken easier until you know how you react- unlike Immodium, where constipation is the big problem. Please, no one take this as a license to abuse Immodium/Lomotil, know yourself and know your opiate tolerance before messing around.
-yawkaw
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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This was the latest post regarding stopping hydro.So I thought I would post here. I need advice/support on where to start with discontinuing hydro. I just really would like to get off of the hydro all together and see where I am at with my disease process. (The original reason I began taking hydro). Lately, the hydro is just not working for me. In fact, it is making feel lousy. At first, it seemed like the majic pill. It gave me energy, took the pain away, etc... seemed like the answer for me at the time. I started taking them last September. I am up to 6 -10 mg per day and I am just not comfortable with that dose. I am no longer doing the things I used to do like exercise, enjoy life. I just feel mentally clouded and really feel the need to assess where I am at with all of this. I think that hyrdo is great for people that need it and I may or may not, but I feel that based on my dose I need to reassess and at least lower my tolerance and if possible stop taking it all together.
Anyway, I have done a search on hydro hollidays and read all of the horror stories of the withdrawal symptoms/depression, etc and all the different advice. I have a medical background , but I am still scared to death of that part. As for meds that I have to help, I have plenty of Lomotil and already take 1 mg of Clonazepam daily anyway. So I would not want to increase that. (read that some people take benzo's to help) I also have hyrdo left with refills. So I suppose a taper may be less painful. ALthough, I am hard headed and would maybe consider cold turkey. Any advice, encouragement, personal experience with hydro hollidays would be greatly appreciated.
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3141592654
Stranger
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 7
Loc: Ohio, USA
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The best way to wean yourself off hydro is to use sublingual buprenorphine (bupe).
Wayne-
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gandolf
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/03
Posts: 34
Loc: U.S....southeast
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Samcali,
If you have enough hydro to taper on then for sure you will need to taper, there's no reason to quit cold turkey. Now, please don't take this the wrong way - I don't mean to make light of your situation at all, but a 60mg per day hydro dosing will not be difficult to conquer. You mentioned you have Clonazepam, that's good. But just space your hydro doses out and you'll be fine. 6 one day, 5 the next, 4 & 1/2 the next, 4, etc, down to one...well you get the picture. If your w/drawals are really bad, clonidine helps (a blood pressure med) if you're having trouble just feeling 'uncomfortably wired' or having problems sleeping. Ambien helps with this too. Both of these you can find at several OP's, athough Clonidine may take a little more searching. Ultram is an option too, but be careful with it because it can produce opiate-like withdrawal in some people. I think you're making a good choice, just be sure to taper. And again, I don't mean to make light of your situation, if anything it's more of an encouraging way of looking at it - quiting 60 mg daily can be done with relative ease..provided you taper and keep some of these meds handy. Best of luck to you!
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dope
Stranger
Reged: 12/02/03
Posts: 7
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please explain bupe
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Quote:
Lately, the hydro is just not working for me. In fact, it is making feel lousy. At first, it seemed like the majic pill. It gave me energy, took the pain away, etc... seemed like the answer for me at the time. I started taking them last September... I am no longer doing the things I used to do like exercise, enjoy life. I just feel mentally clouded and really feel the need to assess where I am at with all of this.
You are experiencing what everyone who has been on opiates long-term experiences. It starts out that you think you finally found what you are looking for- the pain is gone, you're peppy, you feel great. And then as time goes by it just doesn't do what is used to- instead of feeling "up," you've just got this feeling of lethargy. It takes more and more just to do the same thing.
If this is the first time you're trying to quit, cold turkey isn't as bad as it will be in the future if you keep up the hydro. But since you have nothing to compare it to, it will still suck. PM me if you want some more personalized advice, but in general, I recommend tapers. That is, if you have the willpower for a taper. IT is very tempting on a taper to just add a couple extra pills and feel good...but doing that negates your progress. So tapers are good if you have the willpower, then again- cold turkey makes the process much quicker- the downside is those 4 days of feeling horrible, and the high relapse rate.
Really, I'd be more than happy to help if you want to send me a PM and give you some options, let me know about your disease, med usage, etc. and I'll do my best to help you- I've written taper schedules for a lot of people here.
Best of luck to you whatever ya decide to do...I know what you are going through and have been in your shoes.
-yawkaw
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gottadoit
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/21/03
Posts: 269
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I agree with Wayne. I would go with the bup. You can get the IOP version for relatively cheap. I think that clickdrugstore.com carries it and they are pretty dependable. I don't think you would be eligible for the US Suboxone program because your usage is at a relatively low level. If you don't want to go with the temgesic and really are willing to go cold turkey, I don't think you will have that hard of a time physically. You are not taking a high dose of the hydro (comparatively speaking). If you have some tylenol, immodium and vitamins at your disposal I don't think it will be that difficult to stop. A taper is always an option too. The mental cravings are always the hardest part of this and you have to be very disciplined in order to stick to a taper program. Only you can decide what approach is best for you. Good luck!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks for everyones comments/suggestions......
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piper65111
Member
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 105
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Y
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piper65111
Member
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 105
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That was a mistake I was trying to ex out.What I wanted to say was I think the physical part is worse than the mental.When I have wd I have awful chills and I dont even want to get out of bed.Anyone else have it that bad?
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Firefairy
Member
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 147
Loc: Mississippi
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I crawl into the bathtub and don't want to get out. I just keep adding hot water as it cools. I keep my book & lemon drops with me and the phone to intercom my helpful teenagers to bring me something to drink. I try not to take the imodium unless I have to go somewhere, I look at as a weight reduction strategy.
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cotybear
Journeyman
Reged: 01/30/04
Posts: 52
Loc: south east
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I just had a forced holiday thrusday and friday no taper i just screwed up somewhere the previous month. I thought i was going to die and thought i would feel better if i did. Not to discourage you or anything but i would advise a taper. And it was mostly the mental effects i read all the stuff on immodium but felt to bad to go get some. My stomach crampped a little but the worst for me is the lack of energy and depression. I felt so bad on friday it felt like it took to much energy to breath i crawled to the computer a couple of times and managed to crawl in the tub that night hoping that a hot bath would help the muscle cramps enough to let me sleep after 6 sleeping pills (i have insomnia anyway) and after about 3 hours of crawling from one couch to the other trying to find a comfortable postion and the constant muscle twitching i managed to fall asleep by the time i woke up the next morning i thing i felt worse from the hugh dose of sleeping pills which was finally cured by my refill. I can live with the cramps and the diahrea and i can even tolerate the pain but the depression and the muscle twitching just about kills me. Does anyone know why or what causes the muscle pains in the legs? Is there any relief for that not that i plan on putting myself in that position again anytime soon but just in case? But i believe in mind over matter and if you are doing this by choice it may not be as mentally taxing for you and the depression may not be a problem for you.
Coty
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Firefairy, Cotybear,
Just curious, how many milligrams of hyrdo were you taking daily? Just wondering in comparision for me to relate too. Gosh, I hope my withdrawals will be nothing like you have described. That sounds aweful. Like I said I am on 60 mg daily and I have actually taken 50 mg the passed two days. Couldn't tell alot of difference. I think going to 40mg a day is where I am going to see the change. Will let you know......
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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60 milligrams perday............thats a lot of hydrocodone. and to think i get horrible withdrawl from one tramadol a day and up.
Cut out 5 mg a week, unless doing so causes a very prolonged hellish low level withdrawl, then do something faster.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Sam- check your PM's, I responded to your last one.
Btw, for people doing a taper: One thing to keep in mind is that opiate withdrawal goes by the percentage decrease of opiates in your bloodstream. The general rule of thumb is, the lower, the slower.
For example, if you take 100 mg a day (for math purposes), then 10 mg per week drop is 10%. But when you've gotten down to 50 mg, a 10 mg drop represents 20%. So in the lower dosages, you need to modify how much you drop so you don't throw the percentages off. 20% seems to be the best rate to go down by for most people (on this board and others- also most compassionate doctors wouldn't recommend more than that); the best compromise between chance of relapse versus comfortability.
-yawkaw
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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a non linear withdrawl is best, but , unless you plan on crushing your tablets and extracting the hydrocodone into a solution this isnt practical. how else would you measure the dose?
I did this with tramadol too, its water soluble
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Firefairy
Member
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 147
Loc: Mississippi
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At one point several years ago I was up to 80 mg a day. I tapered off over 3 months till I was at nothing. Pill cutters.
I broke the stupid things down to as little as fourths. I did not just say oh yesterday I took 8, today I am going to take 7. I would take one first thing in the morning, and the sections through the day. I alternated alleve, advil, asprin, through the day to help combat the pain. I hit the Imodium frequently, lots of vitamins, I drank a lot of Gatorade. At that time I took trazadone to sleep, I had the dividose kind and was allowed to adjust my own dose, so I upped it a bit so I did not need the hydro as much at night. Heating pads, Hot baths, begged massages off of whoever I could convince or bribe. My migraines increased, so I kept a good supply of Imitrex and took feverfew every day. After 6 months or so I gave up on the non-narcotic pain management plan and went back to hydro. I have always been cautious with my dosage since then. Some days I may need 20 mg, others 50mg, I try to do whatever possible to keep below that. There are times it is not possible, my doctor knows I order hydro through OP's and he will give me a script for Oxy as a breakthrough med in times of extreme anguish.
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pcurry
Stranger
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 13
Loc: Ventura, Ca.
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Also I have read about an old time withdrawl recipe called Murphy's Method or close to that. I have searching Google for it but just can't remember what it was called. Maybe someone else can help me out here. But it was a list of items to have on hand to combat withdrawl promblems. It's to help you thru the worst days.
But you really should taper if you can.
--------------------
"I'm a level 5 vegan, I won't eat anything that cast a shadow."
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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its funny you mentioned that you have horrible depression and leg pains with withdrawl, because all my life ive been severely depressed and since i was 18 had leg muscle pains.
i think some people's major depression is like the same thing as going through very low level opioid withdrawl 24/7 365 days a year. a dysfuction of the endogenous endorphin and dopamine system in the brain could be the cause of some depressions, rather than the serotonin dysfuction that is treated by convetional antidepressents. i take tramadol (doctor prescribes half, get other half from OP's) and its the only thing that has ever helped me any with my depression and leg pains, and ive tried around 10 conventional antidepressnts too, with no results at all.
as far as withdrawl, tapering + DXM + diphenhydramine and/or xanax at night helped me when i took a tramadol holiday. tramadol withdrawl is severe for me as far as insomnia, and hardcore mental effects. i paced around a lot, took hot baths, pounded my fists on my desk, and had constant hardcore racing thoughts in my head. while a steady taper prolongs withdrawl, its still better overall id say. below is a link to my thread on DXM and opioid withdrawl. do not use drugs off lable without the advice of your physician. DXM may not reduce withdrawl symptoms. there is no solid data as of yet.
https://drugbuyers.com/freeboard/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/141199/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
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FreddieC
Journeyman
Reged: 01/11/04
Posts: 90
Loc: Texas
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I find taking lots of advil along with hot baths helps the muscle cramps. I drink a glass of wine at night before I go to bed and try to go through my day as normal as possible. Just lying in bed is when I get depressed. I'm always combating the mental part by telling myself the worst part will be over in a couple of days, then I look forward to the day that the muscle pain stops. I'm going to have to take a holiday myself soon, the meds just aren't working again-it's just too bad they can't make something that you don't have to quit taking for a couple of weeks to make it work again.
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summer
Veteran
Reged: 05/21/02
Posts: 563
Loc: East Coast
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This is a wonderful thread, I am in DESPERATE NEED of a Hydro Holiday, I'm not going to mention my dosage because it sickens me. I'd at this point find an OTC med that I can take to help a small amount with the pain of the degenerative disc disease I have in my lower back, slowy working itself up to the point that I'm basically going to be immobile in severel years, the pain F'n kills me, but Taking so much hydro is depressing me, my main reason I'm on it it of course is for my pain, but I have 2 beautiful little boys 5 + going on 2 that need their Mommy(their Father is a no temper, anger mangement prick). If I didn't have them I SWEAR if it weren't for them, knowing my future(sorry to be graphic here)I'd just stick a gun in my mouth. THANK GOD I HAVE THESE BABIES, THEY ARE THE ONLY THING KEEPING ME ALIVE. I'm 36 and I know I'm too young to die, and I conciously know that's very selfish to do to the people left behind, BUT IN THE BIG PIC AND I AM NOT TYRING TO PLAY PITY PARTY HERE, PLEASE DON'T THINK THAT, ITS'S JUST MY FUTURE IS NOT LOOKING TO GOOD AS FAR AS MOBILITY, That's how this f'n Hydro usage got so out of control, so that I can function for THEM.If I don't take care of them no one else will. I lost my Mother a few years ago(only 53 dammmit) and if she was here than it would never have gotten this out of control because when I hurt bad, she would come and take care of them for me SO I could rest, his Mother thinks it's all in my head. B4 I sent my med recs to NWW I gave her the stack and told her, "read these and dare to tell me it's in my head" Ya know I had a question for you all but I forgot it trying to explain the backround in this situation, but I'm adding this post anyway because when I do rememberr the question at least the backround info is there and I can reply it to my self-
Thanks for reading and I'm so sorry I forgot the question-
Summer
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