yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Quote:
If you go to the meth clinic, you have to have opiates in your system. Plus, they need to know how much "junk" you're taking in order to fill your dose accordingly. Just being honest, because most methadone clinics are for heroin addicts.
lemongrass
Lemongrass is correct. And not only that, you have to be dependent on opiates. They will give you the naloxone challenge test, which determines if you really are dependent. They give you a shot of naloxone (Narcan, it's an opiate antagonist) and if you show early withdrawal symptoms, you immediately get medicated with your first methadone dose. If you fail the test, you have to sit through a lecture about wasting their time. Might vary from state to state, or even clinic to clinic, that's how they do it in NYC. And no, I don't know this first hand- I'm no heroin addict.
-yawkaw
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I have edited this post numerous times because I keep forgetting points I want to make. Please note that my post refers specifically to one particular group of methadone maintenance clinics...this information may be different than state-sponsored clinics in states such as New York. I HAVE NEVER DONE HEROIN-NOT EVEN ONCE. I turned to methadone maintenance when my physician abruptly stopped prescribing MSContin and Demerol. I enrolled in 1995 and quit the program in late 2002, but I have been on methadone every day of my life since 1995 and am currently receiving my prescriptions from my pain management physician. I am simply trying to offer this information based on my experience with years on the maintenance program. Sadly, many chronic pain patients have turned to methadone maintenance programs when physicians fail to adequately medicate these patients and they have nowhere else to turn. My situation is far from unique.
Sorry to disabuse you of this notion, but you do not necessarily have to be opiate-positive to be accepted into a methadone program (at least not the ones managed by Colonial.) You DO have to know enough about opiate addiction to answer the questionnaire and doc's questions appropriately.
In fact, if you have the money (you must pay for a week's worth of methadone up front plus the lab fees,) you get dosed the first day you come in...yes, you have to give a urine and blood sample (the blood sample tests for HIV, liver and kidney functions and other labs including syphylis and Hepatitis--this is repeated annually.) You watch a video on HIV/Hepatitis transmission and fill out tons of paperwork.
The Colonial methadone clinics will NOT allow opiate addicts who concurrently use any benzodiazepines to remain enrolled. And cocaine/methamphetamine positive clients are sanctioned as are opiate-positive clients after the initial UA. Finally, they don't even test for THC. You are "randomly" drug tested once every month (but if that random date falls on the 2nd of the month, addicts have the whole rest of that month to use and not get caught!)
Also...addicts notoriously exaggerate their opiate usage (fearing they will be undermedicated.) The Colonial clinics (which are all over the US) ALWAYS start at 30mgs PERIOD. You have the 1st 30 days to adjust your dose according to your desire (you are allowed to increase it 5mgs a day until you get to 50 and then 10mgs a day up to a maximum dose of 130mgs a day--unless blood tests reveal an unusually high metabolism of methadone.) The upper limit is higher in states with stronger heroin such as Texas and California. After the 30 days is up, all dose adjustments require the clinic doctor's approval (including dose DECREASES!)
The sad fact is, it's a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS. They really don't care WHY you want to be on it if you can pay their daily fee (which was $12/day when I was on it.) Nor do they care what dose you want to be on or how long you stay enrolled. If you can pay, you can dose. Alternately, if you CAN'T pay (and you are already a client) you DON'T get dosed! And you must come to the clinic each day for your dose (except Sunday and holidays) and work your way through the "phases" to get "take-out" privileges. Clean UAs and regular attendance plus time and you can eventually earn the privilege to get up to 30 days supply at once (but you are randomly called for a medication check each month and must bring all your empty and full bottles in within 24 hours.) That is Phase 5 (you must have been on methadone maintenance with clean UAs for 3 continuous years to qualify.)
PLEASE do not use the term "meth" to describe methadone. METH is the term for methamphetamine. I HATE being associated with such a destructive drug.
Edited by night_shade (02/22/04 04:47 AM)
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CHEESE
Veteran
Reged: 01/02/02
Posts: 592
Loc: U.S.A.
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I am presently in a methadone maintnence program (I'M NOT A EX-HEROIN USER )I was in a pain clinic for three years and was receiving MSCONTIN ,OXYCONTIN , FENTYNAL LOLIPOPS , AND HYDRO -NOT AT THE SAME TIME -THEY WOULD ALTERNATE MEDS -SO YOU WOULD NOT GET USED TO ONE PARTICULAR MEDICATION. Then one day the doctor who was overseasing the pain clinic was brought up on charges -He suposively was selling prescriptions to LOCAL DRUG ADDICTS and anyone who had money (INCLUDING UNDERCOVER DEA OFFICERS) SLOWLY THE CLINIC BEGAN GIVING LESS MEDS. THEN ONE DAY I GOT A LETTER IN THE MAIL STATING I WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED FROM THE CARE OF THE CLINIC. I HAD THREE WEEKS TOO FIND A DOCTOR WHO WOULD TAKE MY INSURANCE AND PROVIDE THE MEDS. I NEEDED (WHICH IS NEXT TOO IMPOSSIBLE! (MOST SO CALLED PAIN DOCTORS WANT TO GIVE ME HYDRO AND DARVON.)All the real pain centers had a MONTH WAITING PEROID or would not take my insurance. So I found a methadone clinic that would take me. I had to pay a $20.00 co-pay (THE METHADONE CLINIC I GO TO SOUNDS ALOT LIKE THE ONE NIGHT-SHADE WAS IN.) I have been their for three months and on my way to being detoxed - starting monday I WILL BE GOING THROUGH A 4 WEEK DETOX FROM 70MG OF METHADONE TO !! ZERO!! I HAVE A DOCTOR WHO WILL PRESCRIBE ME SLEEPING PILLS - BENZO'S ,ETC... WHILE DETOXING. IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH BUT IT'S THE WAY TO GO! TOO LIVE LIFE NEEDING TO TRAVEL EVERY MORNING TO A GLASS BOOTH TO GET MY SOUL IN A CUP -IS NOT THE LIFE FOR ME. I HOPE THIS INFO. HELPS PEOPLE WHO ARE DECIDING TO TAKE METHADONE. IT'S NOT A CURE BUT IT DOES HELP ALOT OF PEOPLE. CHEESE 
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kacleme
Stranger
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 10
Loc: TEXAS
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hey,i'm on 100 mg and am close to detoxing.let me know how your detox goes please!i've been on methadone for about 3 years and am ready to quit but i realize the dangers of cold turkey and wont do that.please let me know the best ammount to go down per week,etc. where i won't have too much discomfort.i'd much rather go slow and make progress than try to go too fast and just end up back on the same dose or more.please im me through your different phases of detox and let me know how its going.i also have a few more things i would like to get your opinion on.thanks
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Chicago
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I feel for anyone who has to go through a methadone program or someone whos doctor cant supply them with pain meds anymore for any reason. especially since there is no logical or health reason to demonize pain meds
i should feel fortunate that tramadol works for me and that i am only moderately dependant on a modest dose of tramadol thats well below the maximum daily tramadol dose of 400 mg a day
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Dante6677
Member
Reged: 08/14/03
Posts: 140
Loc: Fl. Panhandle
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WOW, from 70mg to 0 in four weeks! I was on 100mg for about a year and I detoxed at a rate of 5mg's a week. at the end all I felt as far as withdraws were lack of sleep, I got about 2 hour a night without sleep aids, and diarhea. this lasted about a week. I dont want to give you the wrong mind set but I will say this, Methadone clinics dont want you to detox. Mine talked me out of it twice. I was a good paying customer! well..good luck! 
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Wolverine
Stranger
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 10
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I just reading your post on Detoxing on methadone. I've been going to my methadone clinic for 2 years as of February 2. Iam at 70mg right now. I was at 95 in December. I hope to be down to 30mg in June & completely off of it by my 33rd B-Day, which is August, 22. I agree with eveything everyone said. Methadone did save mine & my brothers life, but Iam ready to get off of it. Iam just doing it very very slowly. Since it took so long to get where Iam at, I don't want to ever have to come back. Good-Luck to each & everyone of you & if theirs anything I can do pm me.
audi
Wolverine
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xiolablue15
Journeyman
Reged: 03/17/04
Posts: 59
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I too have been on methadone for about 2 years now. I'm on 60mgs. right now. this is the most I've ever been on. My boyfriend had been on 120mgs. but has detoxed down to 70mgs. it was really hard for him because he went from 120 to 0 in 7 days and then when he get his bill straightened out they brought his dose back up. he wanted to stop at 70 though because he was tired of being on such a high dose. but yeah, I'd like very much to come off of it. I'm tired of having to deal with going to that place. I feel so far removed from the whole situation and when i step into that clinic i feel like I stepped into a time machine. I'm glad to see all the methadone patients speak up and out. Sometimes I feel like the only one who had a substance abuse problem even though it is glaringly obvious that I am not alone. I also have anxiety disorder and agoraphobia and whenever I am prescribed benzos i feel like such a scammer. It's silly I know...
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xiolablue15
Journeyman
Reged: 03/17/04
Posts: 59
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Oh and by the way, there is hardly a difference with being a heroin addict and being addicted to percocets and those kind of pills. I've been addicted to both and to tell you the truth, the pill withdrawal was worse than the heroin. All of you who think you're better for popping your pills rather than shooting "junk" are disillusioned. And don't everybody jump to conclusions. I'm talking to those certain people who are abusing their opiates all the while they convince themselves that the addict on the street is below them. You all know who you are...
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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my husband was addicted to heroin 10 years ago and went thru the methadone program for a year in which he stated was worse than the heroin.
that was his experience
carol
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Quote:
Sorry to disabuse you of this notion, but you do not necessarily have to be opiate-positive to be accepted into a methadone program (at least not the ones managed by Colonial.) You DO have to know enough about opiate addiction to answer the questionnaire and doc's questions appropriately.
I know this post is like a month old, but I just saw it.
I wasn't saying you were an ex-heroin addict, I do believe you really are using it for chronic pain.
And I've never been to Minnesota, I don't know what it's like there, night_shade. But EVERY clinic in NYC requires you to pass the naloxone challenge test for opiate dependence. A clinic who didn't require that would become a candy store for people who want to abuse methadone. The clinician will concurrently prescribe benzodiazepines for you.
At this clinic, not everyone starts at 30 mg- he started at 70.
I know this because an ex-friend of mine is a recovering heroin addict and I went with him to pick out a clinic, and we settled on the one in the west 30's-40's. This information is accurate as of 2001. I know he lasted long enough to get weekend take-home priveleges, which he promptly sold to buy you know what- but I don't know the limit to how much take-home supply you can get.
I wasn't disputing anything you said, wasn't even trying to disagree with you- I had no idea it was run differently in different parts of the country. I do understand it can be a sore subject for you because of the undeserved stigma when you say "methadone," and I think it's a shame people have to resort to clinics to get pain relief.
-yawkaw
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Hi Yawkaw-
I was responding to both the quote you originally posted (which I know was not your words) and some of the things you posted yourself.
I tried to be very clear that what I was speaking about was only the methadone clinics managed by Colonial (whose headquarters is in Florida)...by no means did I intend to imply that there was any blanket policy regarding methadone clinics. And my ire is always raised by discussion of MMT. I am quite disgusted by the cash-if-you-want-it policy instituted in the clinics I attended. You didn't even need to be an opioid addict (dependent, whichever you prefer) to get on the program. It was all about the almighty dollar.
Please do not take my post as any personal attack on you or the information you presented. Many people have misinformation about MMT...and I was so incredibly naive when I got on MMT...had NO idea what it would do to me (the stigma, the physical dependence, etc.)
Methadone is very effective as a pain medication. And Methadone Maintenance Treatment DOES save lives, DOES allow addicts to regulate themselves and live productively, but the programs I attended didn't care about any of that--it was all about making money PERIOD and that has left me forever prejudiced against MMT (not MMT clients.)
Again, I apologize if my post seemed personal, Yawkaw.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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lemongrass
Board Addict
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 363
Loc: IL
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Hi, Night Shade.
I'm sorry you were offended by my reference to a methadone clinic as a meth clinic.
First of all, I'm from the city of Chicago and that's how the folks here refer to the clinic. As far as I've ever known, there's never been a reference to a meth lab being called a meth clinic. Destructive a drug meth may be, others might argue that methadone is as destructive. Of course there is no good medical use for methamphetamine, but I acknowledge and realize that there is a valid medical use with methadone.
However, there is a lot of stigma attached to methadone and the clinics that dispense it, so I'm sure that you can see my point. Everyone has differing views on such topics, and I try to respect everyone's view.
I guess I was simply taken aback when you stated so stongly that you destested the notion of being associated with such a drug when I wasn't even referring to methamphetamine. I mean, the subject was about methadone and I don't see how my reference could be misconstrued as the other.
To address others with the methadone clinic situation and obtaining access, I do imagine the procedures and regulations would vary state to state. And I would also imagine that if someone was dependent on several different opiate pain relievers and were suddenly withdrawn by doctor or clinic, that a methadone clinic would oblige in assisting the pain patient.
I have known many people to use methadone clinics and from all of them it has been the same story. The clinics have increased dosages, without the patient's request and they do try to keep you on the program, with little effort to ween or reduce dosing. This, of course, coming from the Chicagoland area and a for-profit program.
Again, sorry for offending you, Night Shade.
lemongrass
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Hey Lemongrass-
Sheesh! I'm 2 for 2 on this one.
Again, a testy subject for me, not testy about the posters!
Around here the lingo for methamphetamine is "meth" and it is a huge problem in the midwest--I guess it's like cheap cocaine and I see people every day whose brains and lives have been destroyed by this drug. I am always a little on edge as MANY people with whom I have discussed METHADONE in conversation confused it with methamphetamine and gave me a weird look and have even said "that meth is so dangerous, just like crackheads people who smoke that stuff..." So, that's why I got a bit testy on that one.
As you should know, Lemongrass, I respect your posts and the things you have contributed to this board. I did not take offense or get angry about your quote...was just trying to convey my end of things...I RARELY have a problem with something anyone says and I will usually PM them if I HAVE taken offense. It just seems lately that my posts are being interpreted (or maybe I'm just not being as clear as I intended) differently than what I meant. In fact, I edited that post many times trying to be exact about what I was saying and convey MY experience with a particular group of MMT clinics. I definitely realize they may be different among different companies and/or states.
Can I crawl out from under my rock now, guys?
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Wolverine
Stranger
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 10
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Iam probably just repeating myself,when I say this, but if it wasn't for the mthadone clinic I would be either Dead or in Jail by now. I was hoping by now their would be a miracle drug for coming off of Metadone. I know its going to be 20 times harder than coming off oxycotin or K4's or heroin. I know Iam paying for it now(For what I have done in the past).
I was wondering if anyone has tried doing a Steroid cycle while they were on methadone. I've been planning to purchase a 8-10 week cycle within the next 2 weeks. I have narrowed the choices down to poproids, or Mexrxoline. I have read alot of post stating that they received everyting they ordered from Mexrx. Iam just not sure how much & excatly what to order from them.
If theirs anyone with advise on a great mass/cutting/strength cycle Iam all ears & eyes, or just pm if you want.
Thanks
Wolverine
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lemongrass
Board Addict
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 363
Loc: IL
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Aw, no need to be under a rock!
I think we very much understand one another. I guess when we write, it can sometimes be difficult to understand the state of someone's intentions because of the lack of tone, facial expression, and body language. It's so easy to misunderstand or misconstrue someone else's meaning.
I respect you and your contributions as well and when I thought that I might have been the culprit of putting you off, I thought I needed to rectify that.
At any rate, I'm glad that the matter is settled and I certainly can understand your point on the methadone/methamphetamine confusion from where you live. Ignorance runs rampant. I don't know how we can ever cure that. It seems no matter how much we try to educate, there are so many that walk around without the slightest notion as to what they're talking about.
Any drug, prescription or otherwise, can destroy a person's life. It's about making good choices and being responsible for our actions. I don't think I've personally encountered anyone on methamphetamine before and I believe that to be my good fortune, but I've seen the devastation that crack and heroin can have on a person when they allow the drug(s) to take control of their lives. I can sympathize in that way, very much so.
With that all said, I bid you and everyone else a good-night.
lemongrass
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Quote:
Please do not take my post as any personal attack on you or the information you presented. Many people have misinformation about MMT...and I was so incredibly naive when I got on MMT...had NO idea what it would do to me (the stigma, the physical dependence, etc.)
I assure you I totally didn't take it that way, thought you were the one offended; when you read the text that someone writes it's hard to feel emotion, things can misinterpreted. No big deal really, glad it wasn't to you.
-yawkaw
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Trampy
Oracle
Reged: 04/03/02
Posts: 1673
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
... Of course there is no good medical use for methamphetamine, but I acknowledge and realize that there is a valid medical use with methadone.
Oh really? Try looking up Desoxyn. Methamphetamine is a C-II sold in the U.S.:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine.htm
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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lemongrass
Board Addict
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 363
Loc: IL
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I mean in the street form and all of the dangerous chemicals used to make it's base for smoking, shooting, and/or snorting. Case closed?
lemongrass
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 975
Loc: usa
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Quote:
Quote:
... Of course there is no good medical use for methamphetamine, but I acknowledge and realize that there is a valid medical use with methadone.
Oh really? Try looking up Desoxyn. Methamphetamine is a C-II sold in the U.S.:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine.htm
Trampy
I would think that she is referring to the homemade stuff--crystal meth, crank, etc.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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starchild
Newbie
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 31
Loc: Northeast
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Thank you!
And you thought the case was closed??
Look at Adderall, Concerta, Dexedrine. For people with ADD/ADHD they are not a destructive drug, but a helpful one to help out day to day.
Just like Methadone can be used to help out heroin/opiate addicts.
Well, I guess we are all in the same boat huh?
And isn't it nice to have so many different viewpoints to see! 
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"All who wander are not lost" - J.R. Tolkien
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sasi
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 142
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Unfortunately I have personal experience with the home-made meth (that is what it is called around here) destroying someone close to me and effecting everyone around him. My brother is a meth addict and has been for years. It turned him into a blithering idiot. He is skinny with rotten teeth. He is no longer my brother. He is in prison right now for possession with intent to sell. He sold in order to buy. What he did is called Ice on the street and he even injected it in his veins. He was caught many, many times and is only just now doing any time. At first he was sentenced to a rehab facility but he failed to show up. So the next time he was caught they kept him. It is probably the best place for him. It is very sad because he has three children and his wife (I think that she has taken over the business while he is away) is not a good mother to them so my mother is raising them.
Recently, in this area, three children and their babysitter died when the meth lab in the trailor exploded. Very sad.
I know that this has nothing to do with Methadone but I thought that I'd share since the subject of methamphatamine did come up. I've heard that it is almost impossible to kick the habit and that the recitavism rate for those in recovery is particularly high.
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lemongrass
Board Addict
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 363
Loc: IL
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Wow, Sasi, I'm so sorry!
No, when people are to that extreme, they are not the person they used to be. I've seen the most wonderful, compassionate, loving, and caring people go down the tubes because of drug addiction. It's not a pretty picture whatsoever.
You know, I've wondered many occasion about how this world would be if people who were addicts took all of the energy that they put into scamming, copping, and getting high and applied that same amount of energy towards something constructive. It takes a lot of effort on an addict's part to maintain their habit. Such a waste of human life.
I wish you and your family the best and I will keep you in my prayers.
lemongrass
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Addiction in any form leads to one of three places:
JAILS, INSTITUTIONS AND DEATH
Very sad, but true (and yes, it's the same for pill freaks--not just heroin or methamphetamine users!)
But a few of these posts including mine are likely to get scrubbed by the mods...oh well...
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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lemongrass
Board Addict
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 363
Loc: IL
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Again, I was referring to the street drug, where methamphetamine is processed into what is known on the streets to be crystal meth, ICE, or crank. I didn't think I'd have to clarify that for it to be understood and inferred!
I think there are a small number of people who just love being arguementative and "try" to make themselves feel superior by "attempting" to belittle another and insult their intelligence.
And I will reiterate once again, ANY drug can be abused and have a devastating effect on one's life, so you can cut the bull and stop acting like it was I who did not know what I was talking about.
You know, I'm not a mean-spirited person, but I must say that right about now I'd much rather be talking to a simpleton. I think they'd "get it" and actually understand. Geez!
I agree with night-shade, these posts might get the old modifier boot, but I wanted my .02 cents in before they do.
lemongrass
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sasi
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 142
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Thanks for the nice thoughts lemongrass.
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starchild
Newbie
Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 31
Loc: Northeast
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Since this post was in reply to mine I feel suddenly urged to answer. I was not being or "trying" or "attempting" to seem superior. All I was trying to say is that there are good and bad to everything, and how you look at it. The post that struck me was the comment referring to "please dont refer to methadone as meth" Not acting "superior" at all, but a number of friends of mine lost everything with meth (crystal-street/homemade drugs) So I was not being "argumentative" when I replied. I am on Adderall (basically pure methamphetamine salts) and telling my family that I take this to help level me out is hard. Hard because of the reputation on the street.
Trust me I understand that they are 2 very different drugs in the fact of why they are used and the extent that people go with them. But, I wanted to just share my experience on the other side. (not counteracting anything ANYONE posted) but trying to add on with my own experiences.
This old "simpleton" is quite upset with your reaction to my non negative post, And I utmostly apologize for my post if it did seem bullish.
Quote:
I didn't think I'd have to clarify that for it to be understood and inferred!
I think there are a small number of people who just love being arguementative and "try" to make themselves feel superior by "attempting" to belittle another and insult their intelligence.
You know, I'm not a mean-spirited person, but I must say that right about now I'd much rather be talking to a simpleton. I think they'd "get it" and actually understand. Geez!
---No, this is not mean spirited at all. This is rude.
I agree with night-shade, these posts might get the old modifier boot, but I wanted my .02 cents in before they do.
----And it really made my night. Thanks and have a nice night also
lemongrass
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"All who wander are not lost" - J.R. Tolkien
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scrufffles
Journeyman
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 85
Loc: midwest
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I agree with xiolablue....putting down someone who has been on street heroin as below someone who gets Doc's pills is wrong. Not everyone has med insurance or the means to get the meds they need, really! Unfortunately people can become addicted both ways and experience very similar withdrawals and problems.
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dhc_60
Old Hand
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 405
Loc: the bottom of a bottle
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Quote:
Addiction in any form leads to one of three places:
JAILS, INSTITUTIONS AND DEATH
Very sad, but true (and yes, it's the same for pill freaks--not just heroin or methamphetamine users!)
PILL FREAKS!!!!
thats the last straw. i was going to say somethings about you, but i dont want to lower myself to that. i will just say that is the most offensive, arrogant thing i have seen on DB yet.
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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This thread is getting really played out, and it feels like the beginnings of a flame war, but...
Quote:
Oh and by the way, there is hardly a difference with being a heroin addict and being addicted to percocets and those kind of pills. I've been addicted to both and to tell you the truth, the pill withdrawal was worse than the heroin. All of you who think you're better for popping your pills rather than shooting "junk" are disillusioned. And don't everybody jump to conclusions. I'm talking to those certain people who are abusing their opiates all the while they convince themselves that the addict on the street is below them. You all know who you are...
I partially agree with that. I think, though, there's no point for addicts to say who is better than who, the bottom line is that they are addicts needing help. If a hardcore heroin addict and a guy taking 30 percs a day ended up at the same NA meeting, they wouldn't kick out the guy on percs just because he wasn't as "hardcore." It's about addicts helping addicts, and that's the bottom line.
Whatever your method of ingestion, swallowing a pill, shooting up, chasing the dragon, whatever- the end result of daily recreational use is the same...addiction. That being said, if you're not shooting up, you're not getting the same quality high. How many people do you hear bragging they shot up a few times and never got addicted? Not many. Many people's lives change with that first shot, and a real heroin addict who still had an ounce of humanity would never suggest any newcomer try it because it is that good of a high. It takes a strong-willed person to get clean off heroin and I admire anyone who has done it.
With a pill like Oxy or Dilaudid, you are guaranteed of a certain potency. When you buy a deck of heroin off the shady guy on the street corner, you have no idea what's in there- you have no idea how strong it is. So it is quite possible that the potency isn't good enough that a pill habit would result in worse withdrawals, physically. But what hasn't been mentioned is that psychological addiction to the needle. Many heroin addicts love that ritual- they feel like god when they push that plunger and realize they are capable of giving themselves such an intense feeling. And the high is better IV'd anyway, so I still think that the psychological withdrawal would be worse from an IV heroin user, even if the physical withdrawal possibly might not be.
And as for what night_shade said about pill freaks, she wasn't referring to chronic pain sufferers, as she is one herself. She was simply saying that ALL addiction is dangerous, which is true. She wasn't calling everyone on DB a pill freak, if that's what offended you? Addiction is a horrible disease no matter how you cut it- pills, powders, liquids, or plants.
And to wrap this up- the mods have made it clear that this board isn't for discussion of addiction. I myself don't see the harm in a forum about it, and it is obvious that there are some addicts here, but the mods do run the board, and that's a wish we should respect. There are a lot of other boards for discussing recreational use and addiction.
-yawkaw
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