voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Question: I am tapering down because I NEED to go on a Hydro holiday. Don't like it but my body NEEDS a BREAK. I am finally down to to two 10mg hydros a day but am so lacking in energy and concentration. And the pain in my neck is BAD. Has anyone else experienced this before? The only time my energy picks back up is when I take the hydro.
Anyone expierenced anything even remotely similar to this?
Thanks.
voyager
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Voyager,
Absolutely!!!! Although I cannot explain it, I feel the exact same way. I don't want to do a thing if I don't take my medication. I tell myself that it's either because my pain is greater without meds or possibly a chemical thing and it brings down my energy level as well as my morale, but either way it's pretty depressing and it makes me feel like a slave to the hydro. I can't wait until my surgery is complete and I can get off this stuff. Good luck on your holiday. It's pure hell, but we're all here for you.
D
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Heya voyager,
Yep- been through that. Even with a slow taper that avoids the worst withdrawal symptoms, you're bound to get something- I've been through the energy slump and the moodiness. Don't know if your bowel movements are any different, but they were for me when I was tapering and went through the mental stuff you describe.
Wish I had a solution for ya. Of course you know more hydro will do it, but all it takes is one slip-up on the taper to ruin things. What actually worked a little for me was phentermine that a friend gave me, gave me energy without being so speedy it aggravated withdrawal and made me a little more willing to face the day on a dose of hydro I knew I could barely feel. Also what has helped me in the past has been to get on Wellbutrin a few weeks before starting a taper (though you can start it any time). It seems to be the antidepressant of choice for quitting various substances, as it's thought to have an effect on dopamine (which supposedly underlies all addiction)- it gives you a bit of an energy/mood bost, it has definitely made the difference for me.
Good luck voyager and hang in there- you're down to 2 10 mg's that's great, keep on keeping on and you'll get through it.
-yawkaw
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dixiechick
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/29/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Deep South
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I too have experienced the same thing. Just remember to drink lots of water, eat right (even though for the first few days that is the last thing you want to do) and at least some light exercise each day. Lots of hot showers and baths will help with the pain as well as an OTC NSAID. I know the first few weeks are total hell, but i promise you if you stick it out, your energy will come back.
I decided a couple months ago to take a holiday, and even though i have days of very intense pain, it is good to know that i am not a slave to the hydro. I plan on staying on this holiday for as long as my body will let me but for now it is good to be clearing out those cobwebs in my head 
Dixie
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snakey
Member
Reged: 05/20/03
Posts: 103
Loc: cally
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if you don't mind me asking,how much were you taking a day,cause when I went from 8 to 6 was not too bad,but from 6 to 4 I was dragging for almost a week,now at 4 I feel good,so maybe it takes about a week for the body to adjust,yawkaw would know that one,but down to 2 that is GREAT,why not dip in to c/t now I don't think it should be too bad for ya,but boy congrats,cause I know how hard it can be..snakey 
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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You all are the GREATEST. THanks for giving me some hope and inspiration. This hydro for me is such a complex love / hate relationship that I have with this medication. I know it sounds strange, but that is just they way it is.
Love to all.
Voyager (David)
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maximagirl
Stranger
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 9
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Hi all,
Yes, I am a newbie, this is my first post.
This one grabbed my attention because I too, am in the tapering mode. Down to 3 a day. Seem to be stuck there (mostly because I still feel so bad at 3). I guess my body just has to adjust. Don't have a clue when to take it down to 2!
This is the hardest thing I have ever done.
Hats off to those of you who have successfully tapered or cold turkey or whatever for your holiday.
I hope to say someday that I am on a holiday too.
I don't have the energy to type anymore so I will end it here..
maximagirl
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karib
Member
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 104
Loc: new england
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hydro gives me lots of energy whe i first take it then it sort of gets me down but i have such awful nect pain whihc goes into my head that it is hard for me not to take even when i don't want to.
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Yes, sure have by now. And it's pretty recent.
Bad enough for me to have slipped up.
I can live with the pain, the shivers, the hot and cold flashes..
I can exist, reluctantly, with the back pain (the original pain that is being medicated), the abdominal pain (also being medicated)
I cannot deal with the restlessness and the kicking, I cannot stand the constant bowel movements (which are part of my pathology and respond very well to opiates), and the pain and cramping in my guts. In fact, that has, in the past made me consider ending it all, because at the time I was seeing a heartless doctor who would refuse me pain medication. Well, he allowed me Mobic and Bextra and Celebrex, and didn't mind the near-ulcer, but, well, you probably get the idea.
One time I did take a handful of pills, and my wife told the doctor a convincing enough story to get him to prescribe something good. I had to vomit up the pills. My point with that is that the original pain, left untreated, can cause malaise and depression too.
I cannot deal with the depression and emptiness and sadness. I want to cry, and I NEVER used to cry. I'm irritable and short, and cannot derive pleasure from the things that otherwise make me happy.
But I have told myself I need narcotics for my pain, for some of my other symptoms (for which opium and paregoric used to be totally acceptable remedies btw), and I have no moral qualms about the fact that it can be habit forming. I don't drink much alcohol, do not smoke, and I am smart, funny, and nice to small animals.
I think it's better to live happily, out of pain, being a productive 'addict' though I hate the word and its social stigma, than it is to be an unhappy, crabby person in pain, albeit clean.
To that end, I once again say 'make OTC narcotics available' - we will use them responsibly, even if there is an inital phase during which you may see an sharp, temporary increase. People should have dominion over their own Best if kept off the board bodies. But that's for another thread, one worth ressurrecting.
Red
Edit : I want to add that I do wish you the very best, and I hope you do well. I remember you offered to be there for me when I was tapering two weeks ago, and I want you to know that I'm more than willing to reciprocate, in other words, feel free if you need to chat or something..
Funny how I got caught up in my own ideological soap-boxing that I didn't even think to wish you luck, I am quite ashamed.
Red
Edited by redhill (02/06/04 05:55 PM)
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 260
Loc: USA
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I think making narcotics otc would be a very very bad idea.. A good solution would be some sort of class you could take after turning 21.. This class would teach you all the pro's and con's of opiates and then a person would ger a certification card and be able to buy them at a pharmacy.. lol. Just a thought.
Tred =)
ps.. good luck voyager.. We are all pulling for ya'.. Just know you aren't alone in this.
--------------------
Entertainment Specialist!
Edited by Tred (02/06/04 01:43 PM)
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Just to answer snakey's question, I was at or around 10 per day initially.
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debby
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 76
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I am so glad this thread is here. I have been off hydro for about two weeks, and am so tired and depressed..I don't want to do anything, don't want to workout etc. Is it because of having been on the hydro, or is it because my pain has come back and I just want to go to bed?
debby
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curious
Member
Reged: 03/14/03
Posts: 179
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Probably both-and besides the pain, I think the worst part of a holiday or withdrawl, however you want to put it, is the depression. I, like another poster above stated, never cry even being female but after I've been on hydro for awhile and then take a break just to cleanse my system or because I don't need it, will start crying for no reason and sometimes it's uncontrollable. Just driving down the street, listening to an upbeat song, talking with my kids and then boom, it hits me for no reason and while I'm crying I can't even tell you why. I feel lonely even though I have many friends and family and just feel like the pits. And that is the only time in my life I've ever even experienced depression. I also think the depression has a lot to do with the energy level. When you are depressed you don't want to do anything but be a vegetable and add pain into that equation, it's tenfold. Pain in itself can cause depression. Another reason why it's so hard for me to understand why doctors want to underprescribe. They have to know that the pain is going to make other things in your life worse. Pain causes stress and stress can cause any number of other things to go wrong with your body physically and emotionally. It's all a vicious cycle. I geuss that is a very important reason why you should only take hydro for pain relief when you have no other alternatives and nothing else will work for you because you can become physically addicted pretty fast in my opinion and when it comes time you don't need it, you have to go through a nightmare until the stuff is out of your system for a long time. I would never do it without some sort of help like the buph for cold turkey or tapering if you can, then at least it's not so bad when you do finally stop. That's my experience but I've definately heard of others that when they don't need it they can just throw it away and be done with it. I geuss everyone's system is different. My thoughts and prayers are with all of you who are going through this right now. Just remember, "this too shall pass" and it will. Be strong.
Curious
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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Oh yeahhhh
I think everyone here could agree with you to some extent. Besides the returning pain (x10 since there are less natural endorphins after the hydro usage) - the sweats/chills/aches/sneezing/coughing/diahhrea - even besides all that, the mental aspects - and the mental aspects are actually worse!, to me at least. I have dealt with and can deal with pain. I have dealt with and can deal with the flu. But when tapering/stopping any narcotic, the fatigue, depression, general sense of impending doom (like there is no way anything will go 'right'?), and of course depression, general malaise.....
That's the worst. Because that's the part that keeps me from living life. I remember before opioids, I would be in alot of pain but still do normal life things, and even at pretty much the same pace/energy level. The pain was in the 'background' - But when your endorphins are all used up, all that hurt and pain are right there in the forefront. Of course, the endorphin system rebuilds itself over time like most parts of the body, and after several weeks or sometimes months (depeneding on length of dependence/severity of dependence) - this long until they feel 'mentally normal' again. Thankfully also the pain , the physical part, goes away after only about 72 hours.
The part I hate is that the pain *peaks* at about 48-72 hours, so - for those 3 days, the pain is not going away it is increasing.  That's a really bad feeling 'mentally' and can also cause depression because you feel like you are falling apart. I dunoo - it's a double-edged sword for sure. Opioids vs. Non-Opioids........ We have the choice right now to live in pain or live pain free. But the price we pay for the freedom from the shackles of pain - ouch! Nature and karma in full effect. Every opposite has an equal and opposite reaction. God pays us all back (for 'escaping' from our pain). You know all that new-age garbage....
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//zeuzjuz
Edited by zeuzjuz (02/06/04 02:51 PM)
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SBELL
Newbie
Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 35
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Great post  I have seen an article on this on the health channel. Dopamine is a good thing to take. Wellbrution addresses this. I am curranty taking Same-E, it is supposed to help with dopamine ,joint pain ,and liver.You can by it otc.Sbell
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Lisa1967
Member
Reged: 10/29/02
Posts: 123
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What,if anything do you guys take for pain,instead of Hydro? Dont tell me you brave souls just suffer?
I ask this because I too,need a holiday-it's just not working for me anymore I take 8 10mg a day,plus MSconitn 15mg twice a day,and I am still in agony I know I need a holiday-the only time I stopped was when I was pregnant w/my 2 kids,and they are 3& 4 already  Should I order some ultram or something? I already have some wellbutrin,so that wont be a problem if I get depressed
Thanks guys,and good luck w/your holidays!
Lisa
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Tred, that sounds like a very good idea to me. Why did that one not occur to me. But again, that idea is probably too free, too, uh, well, permissive for 21st Century USA. Ideologically we seem to be going back in time.
BTW I am having a me cup of full-on coffee, since it's still OTC - grin.
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meowsie
Member
Reged: 12/16/03
Posts: 168
Loc: MA
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Yeah, ultram is good for a hydro holiday; I don't experience any wd's if I take enough ultram; sometimes I actually like ultram better, it lasts a lot longer, that's actually what I'm taking right now, just got it from prescriptions key west, if you want to get some I had a great experience with them,
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