Whosoever is spared personal pain must feel himself called to help in diminishing the pain of others.
Dr Albert Schweitzer



Meds, Medical Conditions, and Treatment >> Meds, Medical Conditions, and Treatment

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Corrie
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Reged: 07/16/02
Posts: 362
Loc: Southeast US
Unable to move upon awakening??
      #133171 - 01/31/04 08:17 PM

Hi all,

I've been having increasing difficulting in waking up in the morning because my back seems to be in the "stuck" position. I'm in extreme pain - the pain is centrally located in the low-mid back and goes down both legs (used to go down right leg to knee) and up my spine almost to my shoulders. This morning I woke up and screamed and my dh had to massage my back until I could get up to get a Tramadol. I'm taking Norco for my pain, but I don't want to take it all of the time or develop more tolerance than I already have, so I take Ultram in the morning, and it really does work. I had a lot of weird side effects from this med at first, but now all the Tramadol does is lessen the pain.

I've been to numerous doc's, Orthopaedists, Chiropractor and now I'm getting ready to get a second set of MRI's (hopefully) since I already have an MRI from 2 years ago and an X-Ray as well. The MRI showed disc herniation at L4-L5/S1, no tearing. If the problem becomes progressively worse, and your doctor only wants to go by your previous records and give you an occasional Ultram and a set of papers that state how to stand, sit and live with chronic back problems. I'm already working out on my stability ball and am doing what has been suggested, but I don't know where else to turn, except to another doctor. We just switched to an HMO, so I will be going next week to be assessed.

On another note, I ordered Koyotakara from Masters Marketing - it's supposed to be a detoxifying agent (Sachet) that you place on the bottom of your foot overnight and rids your body of toxins. I've been using it the past 4 nights and cannot believe how many toxins have been eliminated. I'm pretty much skeptical, but the concept is based upon Acupunture, so if you have any ideas about this product, please let me know. You put the sachet on the soles of your feet before bed, leave on for 8-12 hours, then remove and can see what toxins have been eliminated. I will say that taking the amount of tylenol (APAP) in the Lortabs or Norco that I have to take concerns me, and it's not just 2000 mg.'s (tolerance), so I've been searching alternate ways to feel better (this has helped, but I've been sleeping a LOT since I've been using this for some reason).

Here's a link to the detoxifying agent I'm using to help my body rid the APAP: web page

Any information would be appreciated.

Corrie

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DTZNuff
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Reged: 11/16/02
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Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #133173 - 01/31/04 08:39 PM

I was very skeptical about this Koyotakara product from Masters too, but I had a real "weird" experience with the stuff that I thought I would share. Last summer, I had gotten some of the stuff from Masters because they were sending out free samples and hey, anything free...well the night that I decided to try it, I had grilled burgers earlier in the evening and inhaled quite a lot of smoke. That night I tried the Koyotakara on my foot. In the morning when I woke up and took it off I was totally astonished when I smelled it, (come on I had to smell it, its human nature) and it smelled like smoke from my grill. Needless to say, I was floored when I smelled this. I even wrote to Julie at Masters to tell her about it. There is no doubt in my mind that it works. I wish that I had more to tell you about your not being able to move in the morning. I can tell you that I was recently diagnosed with a bulging disk in my back, and alot of the time when I would get up in the morning, I was so stiff from it that I did have a hard time moving, just because it would hurt so bad. Well, I wish you luck with your problem.

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Serenity Now, Insanity Later!




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Corrie
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Reged: 07/16/02
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Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: DTZNuff]
      #133174 - 01/31/04 08:52 PM

Hi, DTZ. That is strange (about the barbeque smoke smell). I have to say that for the past 3 nights (I'm wearing my 4th right now) it's amazing just what toxins are in your body by seeing the sachet (I apologize for anything graphic, but it's not gross). And I haven't noticed any lightening effect with the sachet so far, so I must be a toxic waste dump. I feel like ordering 100 of them until I can see a clear sachet.

I think a combination of Eastern and Western medicine is a good combination, and I'll also say I'm VERY disappointed with so many of our own doctors who are doling out free samples of anti-depressants without realizing that there really are withdrawal effects from these drugs. It all boils down to the pharmaceutical reps courting the physicians. Vacations to Maui all at the expense of Pfizer, etc. I guess I'm a little miffed. I recently had a close family member pass from the negligence of a doctor's inability to differentiate between what this family member needed and what was best for their profit margin. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I just don't think enough studies are being done with these new drugs.

Anyway, I'm beginning to believe more in the natural way, or homoepathic way of treating certain conditions (DEFINITELY not all), and Koyotakara seems to be working for me.

I also wish you luck with your bulging disk, hopefully all will turn out allright (I'm sure it will, just in the interim it can be really painful). Take care...

Corrie

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lemongrass
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Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #133217 - 02/01/04 07:32 AM

I'm so sorry to hear about your morning pain/stiffness. This is exactly how it is for me with my RA (rheumatoid arthritis) and it sux (for a lack of a better word).

Listen, I believe homeopathics along with modern medicine is a great idea as well, but as for those detoxifiers that you apply to your feet...well, it may work, but not entirely. It literally takes years to detox your body and, meanwhile, we're always taking in more toxins, pollutants, second-hand smoke, cleaning products, etc. Really do your homework before you buy into some of these methods. People are on the lurk for those who are looking for quick fixes.

lemongrass

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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #133229 - 02/01/04 08:51 AM

I went to the "kyotokara" webpage. The active ingredient, if it can even be called that is pyroligneous acid.

Here's a link: http://toxics.usgs.gov/definitions/pyroligneous_acid.html

To translate what the above link tells you, it is basically vinegar (acetic acid) and wood alcohol (methanol), with some other garbage thrown in. The reason the teabag changes color is a reaction of sweat to the pyroligenous acid and whatever else happens to be in these magical teabags.

You naturally lose waste products through sweating. There is no need to collect it on a teabag. You don't lose any more waste products with the teabag on than you would without.

But as far as these "toxins" go- can anyone name one with proof that it is toxic and must be removed?

Beyond the perfectly normal waste products that you would naturally sweat out, what toxins? Why hasn't modern medicine identified any of them?

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, and I'm being respectful of other members' beliefs, but what exactly are we talking about here?

I do agree that pharmaceutical reps have a powerful influence on many medical professionals- it encompasses students, nurses, doctors, pharmacists, everyone. They have a powerful influence on public opinion too with their commercials and propaganda. There are tons of goodies from the pharmaceutical companies- no one can deny that. And I do also agree that this unfortunately influences many doctor's prescribing habits.

And I do agree that there are some alternative medicine practices that do have a real benefit for some people. But you have to draw the line somewhere; I give more credit to acupuncture than I do to sticking teabags on my feet.

I really am not trying to offend anyone here, please don't take it that way- I'm stating an opinion in the same vein as anyone else.

-yawkaw


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zeuzjuz
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Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
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Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: yawkaw3]
      #133260 - 02/01/04 12:37 PM

Yes, I agree Yak Yaw-

We already naturally excrete toxins we take in daily, through sweat and, well... pee. And as well, I agree with the poster above you who said it is impossible to rid the body of toxins because we are always taking new ones in (everything from the meds we take to the carbon monoxide in the air) - So it would really be impossible to ever be toxin-free. The body rids itself of these things naturally, as stated, thru sweat and urine.... I don't think the process could reallly be sped up any (definitely not by vinegar and wood alcohol) - Sorry, but the Koyotakara thing sounds like quack medicine to me too..... There is no way the active ingredients would 'do anything', according to what I know of chemistry.... Most likely, as Yakyaw stated, the 'different color' of the collection bag is just sweat and natural body secretions that would have happened overnight anyway, except without being collected into the bag.

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//zeuzjuz


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D2003
Member


Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 193
Loc: Texas
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #133269 - 02/01/04 02:01 PM

I've not been around a long time like some of the others here (just made journeyman today, in fact), but I do have a Master's Degree in Natural Medicine. (A four year, full time degree in my country.) This is what I was taught during my training, and later saw for myself when I was in practise. I've even undergone the process myself (several times) to better understand it.

Anything you put on the outside of your body doesn't do a whole lot for de-toxing the inside.

To truly de-tox, you need for find a facility that specializes in Natural Medicine, (surely there are some here in the US), and go through their de-tox program. In Australia, (where I earned my degree and practised for some time), the process starts with going into a 'clean' room. Closed windows and closed doors. The room is cleaned daily to an almost sterile level. Anyone entering has to gown up with booties, mask, gloves and sterile gown. You fast (as in NO FOOD, AT ALL) for several days, while constantly drinking huge amounts of filtered water. The room is keep slightly warmer than is truly comfortable to encourage sweating.

After about the third day, you do really start to stink. (All those toxins working their way out.) Frequent showers (with a naturally made soap...basically fat and lye) are encouraged too. The worst of the stink tones down around day 6 or 7, depending on just what is in your system to begin with. No drugs of any kind are offered, unless they are absolutely needed to keep you alive or out of pain. (Extend the de-tox by two days if meds of any kind are being used.) Laxatives or enemas are also offered, but with the amount of water you have to drink each day, going to the bathroom generally isn't a problem.

Around day 7 or 8, you get your first meal. Clear broth. Food is gradually re-introduced over a period of several days...all the while the doctors or Natural Medicine practioners are looking out for any adverse reactions. The entire process can take from 14 to 21 days, depending on what was already in your system to begin with, and whether you have had a de-tox before. (I was released on day 18.) I've seen for myself that some folks who regularly de-tox go through the entire process in just 14 days. (They usually take a two week vacation and enter the de-tox program. Not exactly my idea of a vacation.) First timers, or people with a high toxin load can go a full 21 days.

You don't lose a lot of weight as you are not encouraged to move around more than is strictly needed. (I actually read 20 books, and caught up on my studies during my de-tox period.) The first 3 to 4 days are the hardest as your body adjusts to not eating. Everytime my tummy rumbled, I just had another glass of water. I was monitored around the clock at 4 hour intervals. Any sign of increased/decreased BP, pulse or temp meant the end of it. You were rapily brought back to a full diet as quickly as your body will adjust. Visitors are usually okay, so long as they gown up too. I played a LOT of chess with a study buddy who came by every day to make sure I didn't die of boredom!

You can do a modified version at home, but it best done under the care of a doctor or Natural Medicine practioner. They are trained to spot any difficulties before they become life threatening. This can be something of a problem for the home de-tox people because some don't re-introduce solid food at the right point, and can make themselves quite ill. Because I am trained, I can safely do a home de-tox, and do so about every two years...taking a full 16 days to do it. (I take pain meds as well as one other that keeps me alive.) Seeing I work from home, and have a job that has me in front of a computer the whole time, I really only move from the bed, to the bathroom to the computer. (Maybe 20 steps in all. Although, I do a LOT of bathroom trips.)

The most common mind/emotional problems with a full de-tox are tiredness, some mental and emotional upping and downing, an inability to concentrate (rare, but it does happen...at least to me), and the sheer boredom of sitting about doing nothing more than drinking copious quanities of water. In a hospital type set up, not even TV is allowed due to the out-gassing from various bits inside the box. Same goes from carpet and most furniture. Floors are usually plain boards or lino, and the only furniture is a hospital bed, a stainless steel locker beside the bed, and a tray table. Usually a single stainless steel chair is added for visitors, and even that is removed when they go.

Hopefully, this helps you understand what it takes to do a true de-tox. Anything you stick on your outside, isn't going to do a whole lot for your inside.

D2003


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catkrazy
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Reged: 12/04/03
Posts: 37
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: D2003]
      #133293 - 02/01/04 03:56 PM

Ireally do think that exercise and lots and lots of water help. C.K.

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sjm
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Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 18
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: D2003]
      #133342 - 02/01/04 08:49 PM

I guess that I lean somewhat more on the side of catkrazy - I like saunas, the gym, sweating, etc., rather than the much longer fasting program you explained. I think that both of these methods encourage the body to get rid of whatever it needs to get rid of through the normal channels. The intake that you described, however, I would find extremely difficult to adhere to, largely because I cannot imagine going for that length of time without some sort of food (did I read it correctly, 7 days?).

I wonder, and since you're the expert in this area, I'm sure that you would know, would the enemas promote faster cleansing by causing the body to replace fluid faster? Or is the concept simply the expulsion of what's already there? I don't know, it just seems like everything else that you mentioned was so natural that the enemas seemed out of place, if you know what I mean.

In any event, with all the discussion about holidays from drugs, this post sounds like it has some wonderful ideas as far as getting rid of toxins. There's got to be something to it, perhaps you can tell us more.


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sjm
Stranger


Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 18
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #133343 - 02/01/04 08:56 PM

Hi Corrie,

I have that problem from time to time, also. It seems as if my joints and bones will crumble if I move too quickly, and after a night of restless sleep, facing the morning is also psychologically deadening. I tracked these times by noting in a diary what I did the night and day before, and, to my surprise, I found out that if I was basically sedentary the day before (no exercise, no chores, just reading and doing a crossword puzzle) and took pain medication before retiring, that my tendency was to feel like you described in the morning. I thought that was strange, almost counter-intuitive, but the diary didn't leave much room for doubt. So now, on days where I've been sedentary, I take a long walk, exercise (if possible), and take a hot shower before retiring. Those mornings have diminished and my pain medication intake has dropped, also. Good luck, I'd be anxious to hear how you make out.


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D2003
Member


Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 193
Loc: Texas
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: sjm]
      #133497 - 02/02/04 01:10 PM

Quote:

I guess that I lean somewhat more on the side of catkrazy - I like saunas, the gym, sweating, etc., rather than the much longer fasting program you explained. I think that both of these methods encourage the body to get rid of whatever it needs to get rid of through the normal channels. The intake that you described, however, I would find extremely difficult to adhere to, largely because I cannot imagine going for that length of time without some sort of food (did I read it correctly, 7 days?).

I wonder, and since you're the expert in this area, I'm sure that you would know, would the enemas promote faster cleansing by causing the body to replace fluid faster? Or is the concept simply the expulsion of what's already there? I don't know, it just seems like everything else that you mentioned was so natural that the enemas seemed out of place, if you know what I mean.

In any event, with all the discussion about holidays from drugs, this post sounds like it has some wonderful ideas as far as getting rid of toxins. There's got to be something to it, perhaps you can tell us more.




The laxatives and enemas are offered if you are not 'producing' at a normal rate. (At least once a day.) I personally did not use them simply because all that water did it's job of cleaning out everything inside my colon. Generally after the 4th or 5th day, there is no further deposits, so to speak, available due to your body being empty of solid food. Some folks are usually a little constipated coming into the detox, but all the water usually clears that problem up fairly quickly.

You generally fast for 7 days, although an extra day or two is of no problem. I've actually taken a fast to a full 9 days due to the the use of pain meds and one other that keeps me alive. You can actually go a lot longer without food, especially if you are drinking plenty of water. The longest I've seen a fast go is 21 days, but there is some weight lose if you go that far. (That one was fully supervised by both a doctor and natural medicine practioner.) 7 days is the accepted standard for a full detox. The worst of the fasting if the first 3-4 days. We are so used to eating regularly that your body expects to eat on a daily basis. However after 3-4 days your body accepts the no eating just fine.

The entire process is quite natural and aside from feeling a little tired (and perhaps caffiene and sugar deprived) it works wonderfully well. Once I was back on a full diet again, I seemed to be filled with energy, and everything tasted so much better. My sense of smell sharpened no end. I was not left all gassy or anything and normal bathroom patterns resumed within 12 hours of eating my first solid meal.

I'd be happy to answer any further specific questions you may have.

D2003


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Corrie
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Reged: 07/16/02
Posts: 362
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Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: D2003]
      #133640 - 02/02/04 09:50 PM

Thanks SO much everyone for your input and ideas.

I tend to agree about the fact that placing a 'teabag' on the sole of your foot might not work exactly as they say it will. I guess I'm reaching a little just to find ways to help myself because I feel like I'm taking too many meds (I'm prescribed blood pressure meds, anti-depressants, etc.) as well, so I want to be as healthy as possible.

I work out daily (well, at least 5x weekly), aerobics and weights, and try to sweat as much as possible, plus I juice daily which is supposedly good for you as well. I agree that if I take meds immediately upon going to sleep, that I tend to feel more achey in the morning, but it's really been rough lately. The other morning was REALLY bad. I couldn't move, and I think I'll get another MRI to see if there is something else going on, but it was suggested that it also may be withdrawal, since the hydrocodone I take is short acting.

Anyway, I've been having serious computer problems, but I'm going to print out this thread and read it in its' entirety tonight. I wish I could reply to each one of you individually, as you all have helped me. And I don't take anything anyone has said in a negative light, I welcome any and all ideas, they are much appreciated.

Thanks again all!

Corrie

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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos


Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
Re: Unable to move upon awakening?? [Re: Corrie]
      #134449 - 02/05/04 11:00 AM

Corrie, I'd suggest an alarm to wake you an hour before you need to be up. Have your meds handy, take them, go back to sleep. Hopefully in the next hour they will kick in.
Maybe even try a heating pad during that hour-but if you use one, don't fall asleep.
It sounds like whatever is wrong with your back has worsened or something new has occured.
It couldn't hurt to have a doc re-evaluate your condition.

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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!


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