Magus101
Journeyman
Reged: 06/26/02
Posts: 71
Loc: Bay Area
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Hi,
I been suffering from spontaneous pneumothoraxs (collapsing of the lung(s)) for several years now (which is incredibly painful) and after speaking with my chest surgeon, I have been advised that corrective surgery is my only option to redress this problem. Anyway, to make a long story short, Im not really worried about the surgery itself but rather, the form of anesthesia that is going to be used: a Spinal-Epidural.
To be fair, I dont really know a whole lot about it (I just learned of its existence about 3 days ago). But, from what Ive read, Ive gotten some very mixed feelings about it. Some praise it while others mention that its caused them permanent problems (such as paralysis).
Im really just looking for any kind of advice, experiences or info about this procedure (Im trying to determine if all this worrying Im doing is warranted). Thanks!
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lovepink
Goddess
Reged: 01/01/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: NYC Metro Area
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I've successfully gone through surgery using Spinal/Epidural anesthesia with only minimal, temporary problems...more annoyances than anything.
The area where the needle is to be inserted is topically numbed so although you may feel pressure, you won't feel pain. Soon after the anesthesia was injected I became very nauseous...I told the anesthesiologist that I felt I was going to puke & he put some sort of pressure band on the inside of my wrists which completely quelled the nausea. The nausea MAY have been caused by my body's natural reaction to the first waves of strong anesthetic & may have disappeared because my system got "used" to the anesthesia or it could have been the wristbands (like motion-sickness wristbands).
The actual surgery (though different from yours) went well, I just couldn't feel anything from my mid-chest to my toes. It sounds silly, but the worst "problem" by far was in the Recovery Room and the sensation in the lower half of my body was coming back WAY too slowly for me...I became very agitated that I couldn't move my legs or feet & begged the RR nurse for something to knock me out until all the anesthesia had worn off. I didn't get my requested med & just cried and generally freaked out until I had complete sensation back.
You may have heard horror stories about "spinal headaches" caused by use of spinal anesthesia...I never experienced that nor has anyone I personally know who has undergone a spinal in the last ten years or so...the delivery method of the anesthetic or a change in formulation may have contributed to the decline or extinction of spinal headaches.
Good Luck!
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Lovepink
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I've had spinal anesthesia multiple times and experienced few side effects from it.
It was very strange when the nurses moved my legs and I saw them moving, but couldn't feel it.
I also never have experienced a headache afterward.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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scissorhands
Member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Hell
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I had Spinal Anesthesia after my L4-L5 fusion with rods, screws and cages instead of a morphine pump, although I had previous spinal epidurals during childbirth, it definitely was not the same. It was used for pain control after surgery in my case and was totally worthless, I can still remember the pain to this day, have had three surgeries since and would not allow my Neuro to use this pain control method on me. Although I suffered no side effects from the Epidural Anesthesia itself, the pain alone was not worth it...This was just my experience, wish you the best with your surgery.
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Baseball is wrong...Man with four balls cannot walk!
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Magus101
Journeyman
Reged: 06/26/02
Posts: 71
Loc: Bay Area
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Ah! I forgot to also ask. Some additional questions:
A) Is the procedure painful? I know they use a local on the area where the insertion is going to be made but being that we're dealing with a nearly 13 cm long spinal/epidural needle (click for pic) leads me to believe it might still hurt (alot)...
B) And also, how far (deep) in do they insert the needle? Hopefully not 13cms!!
Thanks again for your help guys; without you, I'd have no where else to turn!
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Caveman6666
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 218
Loc: Earth
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Had it for five operations. Not painful - they give a local before the needle. Only problem was afterward. It freezes the entire lower body, and they had IV'ed in a couple of quarts of saline or something. My bladder was ready to burst, but I was unable to void. Not pleasant.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 841
Loc: USA
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I don't know a lot about it either but a friend of mine went through it and it helped temperarily. She ended up going on disability and is looking at a possible fusion. I really feel bad for her, she is down about it. The injections did not harm her, I guess I need to add that, they just did not help in her case on a long term basis.
I was recently in an accident myself like a week ago, and have a knot going from the base of my neck and the pain is all down my spine. I am going to a doc next week as I can't take the pain. I hope it is not anything bad, I am worried.
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lovely11
Board Addict
Reged: 01/03/04
Posts: 332
Loc: With my dog at my side
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I had a series of three cervical epidural steroid injections for degeneration and bulging and it didn't help me at all. It did feel numb for quite some time but in an unpleasant kind of way.
My daughter however had the spinal epidural steroid injections and after the second one she could stand up straight and walk without assistance for the first time in a while. She had been humped over and walking with a cane for months due to a ruptured disc. (she's only 27 years old )
I know you're talking about a different use and it doesn't include the steroid but the method is the same.
It's going to be just fine. I really feel that thinking positively helps produce a positive outcome
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Lovely - devout dog lover
I wish I were half as good as my dog thinks I am.
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kipskid
Newbie
Reged: 03/25/02
Posts: 34
Loc: out west
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Sorry I am posting this so late but I just came over and saw your post. I had answered a post on the VIP side last week which involves your question...
Here is the post:
I had to have a hysterectomy when I was 30 (16 years ago) and I was taking a lot of Valium at the time for anxiety. I told the surgeon this and spoke to the anesthesiologist to discuss how they were going to put me under while I had this much Valium in my system. (I had already booked me into rehab 12 days following the surgery....) I was taking 7 10 ml a day, (way more than was prescribed), for a few years already so the docs told me they would do a spinal and I would be semi awake for the surgery... He told me I would be able to talk to him if I wanted to... For some reason this did not frighten me and since they were taking things out vaginally I thought ok... well I remember waking up during the surgery and it seemed like I was having a baby... I heard the doc say here it is and he laughed and so on...I tried to say something ... tried and tried but I was unable to move and unable to talk. I did not feel any pain but I knew something was terribly wrong.
The next thing I knew I was in my hospital room with the most extreme pain in my back and I remember the nurses coming in and staring at my stomach for long periods of time... I found out later they were coming in to watch me breath. I had stopped breathing on the operating table and they were given orders to give me NO pain meds for the next 18 hours...I was furious and scared and in pain... they did give me Tylenol which did nothing. A few hours later as the pain crept up my back towards my head, I remembered I had the script for Valium. I asked the nurses to ask the doc if I could at least have that... He said ok... The pain was from my spinal and never did I notice any pain from the hysterectomy. When my surgeon arrived later I asked him what the heck happened and he said he did not know but confirmed I stopped breathing. He thinks the anesthesiologist doc made a mistake and put morphine in my spinal. He told me he had never ordered anything that would have put me all the way under like that. When I talked with the Aneths... He said no he did not put it in but my doctor sticks to what he believes to this day..
If all of this happened today you can bet I would have every medical record, pathology report, etc. ..but back then I was so "do what you are told and don't make waves" type of person. I never questioned it again... and that killer pain lasted a week in my head. The only relief was when I put my head down on the floor and that was with strong pain meds too. Never will I go through that again. I know ... weird huh...
So find out just what all they will be putting in the spinal...
Kipskid
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I have to respond to the previous post.
The back pain was probably NOT from the spinal. I had a hysterectomy and did not get adequate pain relief post operatively because my high dose of methadone counteracted the morphine drip they gave me. I did NOT have spinal anesthesia on this surgery, I was given general anesthesia.
My back hurt worse than anything else (and my husterectomy was abdominal.) It was excruciatingly painful---like being post-op with NO pain meds. In fact, I got better relief from Percocet than I did from morphine IV. Almost every woman in my family has had a hysterectomy and ALL of them said the back pain was horrible.
So, I would highly doubt the back pain was from the spinal. I had spinals several times and never experienced back pain. In addition, the drowsiness you experienced during surgery had to be something else (like they gave you nitrous oxide in a mask, or another sedative in your IV.) Spinals themselves do not cause sedation.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Not to intimidate you about the procedure, but it's fair that you hear all sides of the story. When I had mine done, the doc inserted the needle in my spinal cord and went to reach for the syringe that contained the medicine to attach to the needle and when he did, he accidentally hit the needle sticking out of my back and tore a hole in my spinal canal..... So instead of having a small hole the size of a needle, it was more of a laceration and it was HUGE!!!! The "spinal headache" is caused by spinal fluid leaking from the hole, so obviously I lost much more fluid than a regular procedure and almost died from the loss of spinal fluid. I became unconcious about 5 hours after the procedure, was rushed to the hospital and was given a blood patch where they replace the missing spinal fluid with your own blood. After an 18 hour coma I came to and vowed to never have surgery on my back again. NOW......I can honestly say that this was an "ISOLATED INCIDENT", as I have yet to hear of another horror story like this, so don't let it affect your decision making process. The Anestethiologist(sp?) that did it was great, he just screwed up and it cost me...big time! What pissed me off the most was that he denied the whole thing until I slapped a lawsuit on him and that's when his assistant confessed as to what happened and in turn, so did he. He was ready to settle out of court for an undisclosed sum of money, but all I wanted was an apology and an admission of guilt by him. Once he apologized, I completely dropped the lawsuit and payed my attorneys fee out of my own pocket. I didn't want his money, just the truth and an apology. Sorry this was so long, but I've wanted to share my only medical nightmare story for some time now. Thanks and good luck.
D
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TRS
Journeyman
Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 55
Loc: California
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Gee Dasani,
That was pretty nice of you to drop the suit AND pay your own legal fees. I'm not that nice...I would have at least made him pay my legal fees since it was his idea to lie in the first place. If he had only been upfront after this had happened and told the truth, it wouldn't have went that far. When will people understand that? You have some points waiting for you!!!! Take care, TRS
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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TRS,
The fees were really minimal, like $100 bucks, because the attorney was going to take 35% of the award from the docs malpractice insurance and they were offering to settle for $250,000 just to keep it out of the newspapers, however, the doctor is very reputable and also sort of a friend of my mother, so I didn't want to damage his reputation with a lawsuit, but I did want an apology. He was just so stubborn that he was willing to settle the suit and pay the money instead of fessing up to his mistakes, but once his assistant/nurse came clean about the incident, he knew he was screwed and then told the truth about it and apologigized. Normally, I wouldn't be so forgiving and I would have taken the money, but they say that once a doctor is put in that position, it will ruin him. So, since he is an acquaintance of my mom, I let it go after he apologized. Looking back on it now, I should have taken the money anyways..hehehehehe! Just kidding.
D
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tray1
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 241
Loc: US
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Wow Dasani that is really scary, glad you made it thru. I am petrified of any type of spinal. What a horrible thing to have happen to you, I was cringing as I read it.
Tray
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CeeBee
Member
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 185
Loc: garden state
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Kips Kid and Dasani, true horror stories, thank goodness you both came through! And yes Dasani very understanding and nice of you to let him off with an apology. I have had three spinal epidurals. The first one was about 20 years ago, and I was told I had to remain flat for I think it was 12 hours. I probably did not and I had dreadful headaches for awhile. No pain at the site though and minimal pain afterwards. The other two same thing no pain and no headaches this time. But all three left me with the inabilty to urinate. I had to be catherized all three times. The first time I protested and held it off I thought I would burst, the other two I was wiser and said just do it after I tried to go on my own and could not. Someone above had that side effect too.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Great memory prodder! Yes, I had to be catheterized as well when I received spinal anesthesia. It was also a very weird sensation as feeling started coming back...then the pain made me want more of the spinal! Terrific pain relief while it lasted!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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kipskid
Newbie
Reged: 03/25/02
Posts: 34
Loc: out west
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What's interesting is I do not remember them giving me the spinal. So they must have knocked me out or close to before hand.... Nor do I recall anything like not being able to move my legs AFTERWARDS but during the surgery I could not move any part of me ...I do remember I had a catheter though. I was told I would be awake for the surgery so something had been given to me and it was my doc who told me he thought it was morphine administered through the spinal... I have no clue how all this works since I never looked into things then as I do now...So I really could not say what all they did to me.. I just know my head hurt so bad I wanted to die just about...
The pain started in my back and was only there about a day as it traveled up into my head where it stayed for a solid week after leaving the hospital (4 days later...) My surgery was on April Fools' Day too... wouldn't ya know.. LOL
I had a vaginal .. partial hysterectomy (they left my fallopian tubes and ovaries) which ten years after that I had developed cysts on the fallopian tubes and they did a lapriscope to remove them but again left the ovaries... I was so surprised they didn't take what all was left... I had general anesthesia for that one...
A little story about Epidurals..
Back when I was having babies we were not offered such things... but both my daughters had them and could not feel anything from the waist down and the one actually delivered her 2nd daughter without anyone knowing it. She did not feel the baby deliver and had mentioned something felt a bit odd...we lifted her sheet and there was the baby already born ...Talk about the nurses and doctors freaking out ... oh my goodness ... instruments went flying the doc was mad at the nurse although the nurse had just checked her 2 minutes before so I vouged for her when I saw the doc trying to pin this on her... It angered me they were so concerned about covering their backs that it took away from the miracle that had just been born... Thank goodness the baby was ok but for my daughters 3rd they made sure she was not overly medicated with whatever it is they put in that epidural.
Kipskid
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