Box_of_Rain
Banned=more than one account
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Wow, wasn't expecting this. I decided to take a little hiatus from the opiate pain medications. I didn't expect to feel this horrible, UGH! I had built up a pretty decent tolerance and I was concerned about physical dependence; no worries anymore, it's pretty clear that is exactly what happened. It's day 2 and I feel like hammered [insert swear word relating to feces here]
I am taking Ultram and Soma to get by, it's working alright but having hydro and darvocet in the cabinet is sure a test of strength heh!
Well I suppose this was more of a vent than anything else, but wouldn't mind hearing a success or two on this 
OY VEY!
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JOJOM
Banned for off topic discussions, confronting mods in public, and being unpolite to members and mods
Reged: 08/16/03
Posts: 358
Loc: Yankee
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Hey,
I was off them for 2 weeks once and after the 4th day, I started to feel better, energy was back, I was not running to the bathroom, loss of appetite, lost a few pounds, Yipee for that! I felt like Best if kept off the board, beyond I had no energy to even do my hair in the morning, I gad to take off work for a day just to rest it off. The worst part for me was the RLS, my god I felt like my legs were on fire, I took xanax at night to help with that, I do not take xanax but I have some for emergencies so its always available for me.
It will get better, I was thinking of doing this as well soon to get my tolerance down a little, maybe we should start a thread for this to keep eachother motivated to do it!
What do you think?
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Nothing makes a woman more beautiful than the belief she is beautiful.
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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good luck feeling better. Just curious; what was the amount of hydro you were taking and for what length of time?
Thanks,
Voyager
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BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 403
Loc: Bed
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TO anyone with experience with "Holiday's":
Do they work? By that I mean, after stopping or tapering to a stop for a few days to a week and then returning to narcotic pain relievers, do you need less to get the desired effect?
Is your tolerance lower? How long does this last?
I am contemplating such a "holiday" augmented by Ultram and Xanax, but don't want to go through withdrawals if there is no benefit in reducing my tolerance so I need to take less when I return to hydro/oxy.
Related Question: When people say to take Immodium when stopping, is this regular Immodium A/D for diareahha? Is it to stop diareahhe from withdrawals or is there another reason or another type of Immodium that people take when stopping opiates. (I want all the tools in my tool kit if and when I stop the hydro/oxy!) 
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JOJOM
Banned for off topic discussions, confronting mods in public, and being unpolite to members and mods
Reged: 08/16/03
Posts: 358
Loc: Yankee
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Okay,
My experience is this, You will need immodium for the diarrhea, its very bad, You will need tylenol on hand for headaches you may or may not have, I did, you will need to take off from work at least one day, trust me on this one, drink lots of water and take vitamin c, this helps with the cravings and keeps your immune system up, because it does put havoc on your whole system. If you have soemthing to take at night for the RLS, take it because this is horrible, if you are trying to get off everything all at once, not the best idea but I took a allergy pill such as benedry at night to help me sleep, it make me tired for some reason.
This is the best advise I can give and yes after being off of them for 2 weeks for me, my tolerance did go down and I did not need to take as many.
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Nothing makes a woman more beautiful than the belief she is beautiful.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Withdrawal is always a horrible thing and you have my sympathies!
It's interesting, a study was done in a hospital on patients treated moderately as an inpatient with opiates. They wanted to find out if the cessation of opiates' symptoms were different, more or less severe for people who had no knowledge of opiate withdrawal syndrome (i.e. had not been using opiates at all prior to their hospitalization) as opposed to those who did. What they learned was that people who had never been on opiates prior to the study had fewer side effects and because they did not have the advance knowledge that taking an opiate medication would "cure" the withdrawal, they reported no "cravings" or associated psychological symptoms. They reported feeling like they "had the flu"...
One of those situations where you wish you didn't know what you know, huh?
Sorry, I did a Best if kept off the board job at explaining the study, could look it up if anyone's interested.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Box_of_Rain
Banned=more than one account
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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OK Ill try to answer the questions, if I miss one, no offense intended 
I was taking about 40-50 mg per day on average (not always EVERY day but often) of hydrocodone. It's not a lot but it's enough to cause a few problems in stopping taking them. On the other days, I would usually take a few darvocet or a percocet (which I dont have much of anyway). I think its been about 2-3 months (?) that Ive been on this routine. The last few months have just been awful for me, I wake up feeling like I was ate by a wolf and pooped off a cliff LOL  So Id hobble out of bed and take something.
The worst part is, my husband seems to think I do this for fun, as though I am looking for a buzz; sorry hun, for the most part, I take these things to feel normal, he just doesnt get it and isnt even super supportive in this holiday, ("you did it to yourself" - yes I am aware of that sweetheart  .) its crummy because I feel horrible and wouldnt mind a little TLC 
Hey, I am cool with the idea of a few threads to motivate each other, hopefully DB is too; its tough and support is paramount to getting through it sometimes.
I do think holidays help. For one thing, a holiday if taken at an interval closer than what I did here (say every 4 weeks) will keep you from a horrible physical dependence, and when you return to your regular opiates, your tolerance will be lowered some. It tends to jump back up quicker than we might like but its something, which IMO is better than nothing. I think holidays are a wise idea. I just waited too long [DOH!]
Thanks for the kind words everyone!
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shine
Banned for being unpolite
Reged: 03/16/03
Posts: 128
Loc: California USA
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Hi Stella Blue...I really liked your post...I feel for ya in those times...I have a husband like you...He says the same exact things....WOW walk or try to walk in our shoes and deal with our pain...I'm on a holiday and it is a killer. I'm with ya abut feeling like poop fallling off a cliff.....that was a great one..first time a had a laugh....I have the same amount that I was taking 40-50 mg hydro daily for 4 months...My first break was complete terror..but after a week it was much better, but the pain was intense, so back on the meds and now another break, like ya say it help for when you start back up and our Tolerance......It is better for a day or 2.....LOL..I have a small amount of xanax....I'm out of somas, over the counter sleep meds make me feel bad in the am and I still cant sleep with them...I will be getting some more Imodiam AD I have heard here that it really help not just with the Trots....last time it help a bit better than going with out it...so of to the drug store...hankg in there...we do need this as a forum for us that need each other..take care all, and hang in there...
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quincy
Board Addict
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 333
Loc: pacific northwest
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Yeah, how long are you supposed to be on "holiday"? In a handout from my PM, he mentioned those.Last year I stopped taking opiates completely for about 4 months, but when I needed them again my tolerance came back pretty quickly. I would suggest if you can, switch pain meds for awhile. Not all of you have that option, I know, but when the hydro stopped working I was put on methadone. If you have a real doctor, and don't just use OP's I would suggest asking him/her about it. I would just say: "Look Dr, my back pain has no gotten any better. The medication I have been on is not working as well as it did, and I was wondering if I may be a candidate to try a longer-acting opiate, or maybe I should get a referral to a pain specialist if you are not comfortable with that."
Now thats all you have to say. If your doctor starts giving you a lecture about addiction and tolerance, tell him that you want a pain doctor to decide if you are an addict. That should put him in his place.
Anyways, no I didn't have any luck with my holiday, and although I stopped the physical signs of withdrawl within 10 days, I had cravings for a long time. Yes the medication can help you, but its also a monkey you are carrying on your back.
Good luck and try some clonidine AKA Catapress to aleviate WD symptoms. Thats what I used.
Be well,
Sarah
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kmitch4
Stranger
Reged: 07/02/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Western Hemisphere
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I have never taken hydro, but I do have quite a bit of experience with benzos and codeine. Guess I will "fess up" in this post and see if some of you have had similar experiences. About 15 years ago I had built up a pretty big tolerance for ativan and codeine (in cough syrup). I had been having anxiety and insomnia,and some panic attacks. I decided I was sick and tired of devoting so much time and money to keep up with my tolerance. I won't go into detail, but most of you will understand what I was doing.
Anyway, I decided to go cold turkey off everything. Within 24 hours I was a basket case. I guess I should have checked into rehab, but for various reasons did not do so. I had all the withdrawal symptoms, mental and physical: heart palpitations, totally unable to eat or sleep, suicidal thoughts, horrible mental thoughts, sensitivity to light and and all other stimuli, RLS, a feeling that literally every nerve in my body was totally exposed, a feeling that my head might explode. After about 48 hours of this, I knew I had to do something, so I went to my primary care doc and told him what was going on. He was fairly sympathetic and nonjudgemental, which I really appreciated. I felt such horrible guilt and shame at allowing this to happen. He gave me a low dose of a sedative (I don't remember what) to take the edge off. The worst part was over, but I continued to feel just horrible for several months. But I stuck to the low dosage sedative. Then I moved to another town and started with a new doctor. I told him my history. He and I both thought I needed something for the anxiety/insomnia/panic, so he put me on a fairly low dosage of a combination anxiety/depression med. The anxiety part is a benzo, but for several years, I have been able to maintain my low dosage and feel pretty decent. Then I moved again and my new doctor didn't want me "addicted" to the med, so he wouldn't prescribe it. I did not go through the horrible withdrawa I had before, but I did not do well. I had to miss some work, I was very irritable and a bunch of other unpleasant thigs. After about 3 months of this I went back to the same doc and told him how I felt. He reinstated the dosage I had come to him with and he has kept me at that dosage for about 4 years now.
I am doing fine, but I still have a very high tolerance for benzos. I know that because I have had several medical procedures done where I was sedated with one benzo or another. It takes a lot to sedate me. The doctors seems surprised that they can give me a lot of the sedative and I am still awake and fairly alert.
I don't know if this will help anyone or not. I have ordered a few meds, such as soma, from OPs, but I am very aware of the tolerance/dependence issue and do not want to ever go through that again.
I would not advise anyone to go cold turkey. I know this is a problem for all of us who need meds that cause tolerance and dependence.
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kmitch4
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Box_of_Rain
Banned=more than one account
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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(such a fun forum)
Thanks for the replies. Holiday is a real pain in the arse, in fact I caved on day 4 (today) and took a hydro and a half (15 mg) dammit! Holiday back on tomorrow though. I just about crawled out of my skin this AM, no idea why I hurt that bad, just did.. that and I was miserable.
On day 2 I ran out of Ultram, (RATS!) so much for my planning skills, oh well. Soma is nice but nothing is truly relief encompassing other than the official opiate isn't it? Hopefully my little "infidelity" didn't trigger some invisible reset button as for purpose of this holiday.
I'd gleefully take a Catapress patch if I could get my hands on one, I don't know how I'd ask for it without giving away what I need it for. I am of the opinion that what my doctor doesn't know in this regard won't hurt him. In fact, his knowledge would only prove counter-productive for me, and just when we came up with a reasonable routine for medications. It's still never enough but better than nothing.
If you are still with me, thanks for allowing the meandering here, warm and fuzzies to you all!
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kjb595
Newbie
Reged: 10/14/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Michigan
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Hi first let me say that you won't regret this after it is finished!! And also don't kick yourself down for taking that 1 1/2pills! I went on a Norco holiday and for the 2weeks I was off of them I ended up having to take about 4(I think) because the pain was to unbearable!! But I am so happy that I went through that pain in the rump because now my Norco's work better than ever!! I just wanted to give you some much needed encouragement and tell you to keep up the good work!!!! 
Kelly
AKA: kjb595
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phinny
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/09/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Canada
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For some heart-wrenching stories, do a search for a thread titled "who do you tell". Can't say for sure, but it was started about two years ago - the stories started pouring in by those had to live with both physical pain, and the emotional pain as a result of pressure and condemnation from significant others. I am truely blessed with an understanding, supportive soul.
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Sherman, set the way-back machine to 1970.
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BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 403
Loc: Bed
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Kelly,
How long was your holiday to have such a pronounced affect on the potency of your Norco's when the holiday was over?
Does anyone else have any experience with the duration of a holiday and the decrease in hydro tolerance after returning to the meds?
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phinny
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/09/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Canada
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It's all relative, but I think I know what you're looking for - you are wondering if it will return to pre-hydro days. It will never be as it was. The longer you've been taking hydro, and of course considering the dosage over that period affects holiday length. For me, after about two weeks, I was (perhaps) close to pre oxy days, but after four days or so, my tolerance "ramped up" to pre-holiday levels. Tolerance sucks. I wonder what "three month" or "one year" holidays are like? Would you ever go back to them, even though your pain is not being relieved? I can't say because I can't imagine life without them.
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Sherman, set the way-back machine to 1970.
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Box_of_Rain
Banned=more than one account
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Phinny, no way, I just couldn't 'put up' with a holiday that long, those meds are well needed and I might be able to take the pain for a week or two but not much longer than that. any longer and I would probably be really depressed from hurting like that. Pain bums me out (and probably anyone else) terribly.
I gave up on the Holiday anyawy, I am too big of a sissy for this apparantly
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dndcollect
Newbie
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 38
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here are a few thoughts on the matter. First, it is not very smart to stop taking any opiate cold turkey. Not only is it dangerous, you are putting yourself through unnesassry torture.
I have gone off an on oxycontin, oxycodine, codeine, etc and when you ween yourself off it is not that bad. Now of course diffrent people have diffrent discomfort levels.
The other thing is that it is important for people to realisticly look at their situation. If you need pain medication because you are in pain, then why try to stop taking your medication? Unless you are taking dangerous dosages of the medication, there is no reason to put yourself through this kind of tourture. Dont let the ignorance that surrounds the word "addiction" make you feel guilty about taking medication you NEED to get through life.
If you are a chronic pain sufferer, addiction to pain medication is an eventuallity, but there is NOTHING wrong with that! Even if you get off your medication and dont feel withdrawl or a phsyical need for it, then what are you going to do about your pain that was the reason for taking it in the first place.? Thats not going to go away, so you are going to end up back on the medication.
I do feel for those of you that have an unsuportive mate, im am sorry to hear that. Perhaps if they are open to educating themselves on the matter it will help.
Anyway, the bottom line is ask yourself why you want to stop taking the medication. Unless you arent in pain and are still taking them, or you are taking very high dosages, I dont really in my opinion see a reason to stop taking it. In fact not taking your medication may be the worse thing you can do.
If you have a mental illness and you need medication to stay sane, you have to take it. If you have chronic phsyical pain and you need medication to live your life, you have to take it. I think the media and alot of ignorant people try to distort reality by using the "drug addict" tag on a person that needs to take pain medication.
Anyway thats my 2 sense, and sorry for the poor spelling.
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zenbuck2
Stranger
Reged: 09/30/02
Posts: 16
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Sorry to hear about the rough hydro holidays and WDs. That really sucks...especially if you are trying to work too
I was curious about something though in that the original poster I think was taking 40-50mg a day? I just came off about 30 mg a day with hardly any withdrawals. In clinics they wean you down to 30mg a day or so and just take you off.
I wonder if the amount of awake time you are on hydro has an effect?
I was taking 30mg a day for several months, this weekend I decided to go off them (my condition is responding to another drug so not so much pain). I had very few WD, just a bit of lethargy and a touch of the runs the next day. Now a week later I feel great. The thing is, I NEVER take them when I first get up. I wait until about 5:00 in the afternoon and took a 10mg, then took 20mg at bedtime. My tolerance was up to the point that if I took the 10mg, I didn't feel it too much, and I started to feel cruddy by 5:00 before taking the 10mg, but I think it did make my WDs pretty insignificant.
I was pretty nervous about coming off this amount which was alot (for ME) but it was no problem.
Anyone else have experience with this effect of not spending all waking hours under Hydro influence and not getting bad WDs? I wonder if the original poster had weaned down to 30mg for a week or so if they could have just come off them with fewer WDs?
Just curious.....
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Julz
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 222
Loc: NJ Shore
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zenbuck~
From what I have learned, thru others & my own experience with wd's, is this: first of all, you have to remember that day 3 or 4 is always the worst because that is when the opiates are out of your system completely-and your body is begging for more! Also, the older you get, the harder it is to take a Holiday. Someone who is, say, 18 years old, having taken the same amt as someone who is, say, 40, will not have as rough a time. I agree with the above posts that say it is much better, safer, & most likely a much better chance of success if you taper off first instead of going cold turkey.
Just my 2 cents
Julz
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Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 262
Loc: USA
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Tapering is really the way to go, if you want to take a holiday. The first thing is to make sure you aren't taking an unplanned holliday.. That will lead you to a very nasty situation. If you always have 10 hydro's on reserve and never touch them, then you can save em' for a rainy day and start to taper. Tapering will only get you so far before your temptation and pain gives in, so it's best to just taper for a few days and then stop. At least I think so....
The bad part physically is over in 6 days and then it's mostly mental. If you are a person that really want's to stop taking hydro completely, then there is a miracle drug called buprenex (I forget the real chemical name).. I haven't had first hand experience with it, but I've read tons and tons of great success stories when using a combination of ultram and buprenex over a 6 week course. Most regular doctors won't have a license to prescribe it, but you can get it at certain clinics in most places. I don't know the rules for receiving it, but I do know you will be tested to make sure you stay off opiates, if they decide to do an out-patient program. I've heard the Bup. takes away almost all physical w/d's and takes the opiate craving away too.. It also takes willpower from you, but weaning off buprenex is said to be very easy compared to hydro. Anyway, just thought I'd share this, if you haven't heard of it already.
Other than that... Ultram,Imodium,vitamins,food,water,milk and exercise are the best things to combat holliday's...
Good luck everyone.. it's a very tough thing to be dependent on a medication, but always remember that life before wasn't as good...(if your a real chronic pain patient).....
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Entertainment Specialist!
Edited by Tred (12/05/03 01:58 AM)
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Julz
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 222
Loc: NJ Shore
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Quote:
it's a very tough thing to be dependent on a medication, but always remember that life before wasn't as good...(if your a real chronic pain patient)
Tred- that's a very good point. After reading your post, it led me to think that it really is something- the only meds that seem to really work for those of us with chronic pain are the meds which are addictive. Puts us in a "Catch 22" of sorts, doesnt't it?
Peace and God's blessings to all~
Julz
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Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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wktkpdr
Journeyman
Reged: 02/16/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Midwest, USA
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Thats some real good advice there about tapering. But I would like to note that Ultram is now carrying a warning! It says, "Do Not discontue Immediately". The reason I bring this up is I use to use Ultram. I noticed that after even taking just ONE in ONE day I would experience stomach cramps from H**L! My wife also says the same thing. I just came off hydro and did taper. I have not had any for 3 days now and doubt if I will ever use it again! Usually the day after completely stopping hydro all my upper back muscles wind up in spasm the next morning. This morning just some plain Tylenol took it away so I am happy with that. But I will say that walking around like a gimp is pretty sad looking. Without hydro my right leg almost just drags along
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Chitownlady
Member
Reged: 10/30/03
Posts: 114
Loc: IL
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How much Ultram were you taking? And for how long? I just began taking Ultram and am still kinda wary about all the warnings. PM me if you'd like.
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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I never tend to mind the bathroom problems as it seems like it helps my body get rid of built up fluids from hydro usage and I tend to "un-bloat" and loose a few pound. But the restless leg syndrome keeps me up at night and make me miserable. If I have a muscle relaxer, it helps but it seems like nothing totally takes it away. I usually have to wait until I am between fills so the temptation is not there, so if you have meds on hand and still breaking from them, you are doing great. I have not been able to take a holiday in a while, as my pain has been worsening quite a bit lately, enough to even finally really get the DRS attention and get me into PT.
I am glad you are getting through this. After a while, you will feel great.
edited to say: I just realized how old this thread is, and that she is banned so she cannt read it anyway.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
Edited by PrivateRealm (01/12/04 11:36 PM)
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