renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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Hello DBers,
I finally have a Dr. appointment on 1/12 with my PCP regarding chronic back pain. I need some expert advice on how to approach this situation with my doctor so that I can accomplish the following:
1. Get the meds I need to relieve my pain (short term)
2. Have the appropriate actions taken to find the root cause of the problem to hopefully fix the problem.
I don't want to screw around with BS meds like Vioxx, etc. that are only going to mask the pain and allow the doc to keep prescribing. I want a solution and in the meantime I want RELIEF!!! Any suggestions...
Thx from Reno!
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bobosan
Newbie
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Midwest
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In my personal experience, you can't just tell your doc you don't want to try his recommendations unless you have tried the brug treatment before. He truly is the one that can make or break your records and or attitude in your records when he recommends a non-narcotic approach to your pain relief.
If you do deny his RX for a non-narcotic medication for back pain relief, it can come out looking like you are a drug seeker.
I have had back pain for over 9 years, since I was 19-20 and have gone through the gamit of EVERY non-narcotic medication under the sun. I do feel if I EVER refused or debated with any of them that they would not work before trying them, I would have compromised my records as well as my back pain treatment in a way that may have followed me to this day.
I would explain that you have tried, aleve, motrin, tylenol, or any other OTC medician and they did not work. That you are very frustrated adn would like some thing that would finally work. Including that you have had friends give you samples from their doctor of any other medication that you can think of so he knows that you have tried on your own to alleviate your pain with everything that was available to you without a RX. Although I would NOT argue with him if he does give you a medication that is non-narcotic.
I would follow-up with him in a day or so afer his recommended medication and that it isn't working for you.
THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO IS REFUSE his treatment unless it follows your narcotic medication you are looking for. In the event you do, he can either see through the BS and see that you will not be happy unless you are given a narcotic solution, or that you are trying to argue with him until you get your way. Either way is detrimental to the future of your medical care. Either way is not good.
My wife and I have gone through the same thing. Especially since we have moved so much and I have seen so many different doctors.
My wife has even told the doc that we are so burnt out on ever new doctor that with each new doctor it seemed he wanted me to go through the same rigors of being a pharmacutical guiney pig.
She would go as far to say that she is also tired of me being put through the pharmacutical list that every doctor has, until I was finally given something that would work.
That every day when they went home to spend time with their family I was went home to suffer yet another day of hell until fnally I agiven someting something that would work for the pain, and was finally given some relief.
It is a tough line to stay on, although sometimes your best bet is to follow your doctors advice and give feedback ASAP based on your experience your new medication.
Good luck, most of us have been through it, and know what you are up against in this war on pain management and war on drugs at the same time.
Bobosan
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"Knowledge is POWER
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renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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Thanks for the input, I certainly will have to accept the Docs recommendation. Hopefully, the doc will accept my feedback when the weak meds don't work. I have tried these solutions in the past and they just don't cut it.
Thanks again for the help!
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wen
Newbie
Reged: 10/22/03
Posts: 25
Loc: West Coast
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Hey there!
Got to go with the previous post. If you ask for narcotics most dr's will assume you are a drug seeker. Be honest with the Dr about your pain and tell him/her you have tried all over the counter products as well as iceing your back. You can tell him/her that you have tried vioxx and other anti inflammatories and that haven't really worked for you in the past. Be prepared to answer why you had them and where you got them. Vioxx is pretty easily gotten as a sample from most drs so you can say you got samples from a friend.
I could give you more advice if I knew what kind of back pain and what started it. I have been dealing with back pain and dr's for about 8 years now. Please feel free to PM me if you would like.
Good luck to you!!!
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 874
Loc: usa
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Bobosan gave good advice.....the thing is to try to develop a good working relationship with the doc....and to be sincere in your willingness to try his suggestions. He should ask what you've taken before that didn't work & what you've taken that did....if he however, suggests a trial of Ultram & Vioxx or Ultram & prescription strength naprosyn, take the scripts, take the meds & make a follw up appointment.....if they don't provide relief, go back & do it in the framework of seeking his expertise & help....have you ever had an MRI? Now would be a good time to get an MRI...you can't tell diddly with plain x-rays....so that's a good place to start....
You want to be very careful about getting labled "drug seeker" cuz once you get that in your chart...most providers won't even LISTEN to your side of the story....if it becomes clear he's not comfortable with prescribing narcotics long term....or seeing you through to finding out the problem....ask him for a referral to a ortho doc, and down the road to a Pain managmement specialist....you may have to endure a few epidurals....and epidurals actually help ALOT of people....
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bronwyn
Newbie
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 40
Loc: bluegrass
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One last comment - I would be careful about saying you got meds from a friend. That is actually a big no-no and can cause further problems with the law because they can force a name and arrest for distributing a prescription without a license. Better off with other docs have given samples...and be aware that some take a little time to work.
Good Luck. I have detailed records, walked into a pain clinic by referal and was told to continue taking what clearly wasn't working. Thank God and others for OP's.
Bronwyn
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Bronwyn
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bobosan
Newbie
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Midwest
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Good point. Although I meaant that you were given FREE samples of Vioxx or other "New anti-inflamatory" medications that woulnd't be a big deal if you recieived them from a relative or something when you are in pain and they suggested trying a FREE sample they received from their doctor to help with your pain. It shows that you are willing to try anyting LEGAL to fight your pain while not "crossing" the line.
Just my personal suggestion.
All suggestions are up to each person and their relationship to their doctor.
Bobosan
PS Epidurals aren't Best if kept off the board. They don't hurt hardly at all. Try getting a CT Enhanced mylegram (Diskogram), NOW talk about pain!!!!!!!!
Watch out about getting a referral to an ORTHO doc, as they know about BONES, a Nuero doc knows about BONES AND NERVES, which is what a typical back pain sufferer has problems with. Or at least I do. Intense shooting pain down my legs, with numbness/shooting pain at the same time. Just an FYI. I went to an ORTHO doc and he said he didn't treat pain. I went to a Neuro doc and he treated not only the pain, but worked with me on facet joint injections, epidurals, trigger point injections, including a plethora of tests including nuclear medicine and a bone scan. Bobosan
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"Knowledge is POWER
Edited by bobosan (01/06/04 06:58 PM)
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mistya
Newbie
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 29
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I have suffered with back pain for a while now. I just had a MRI done of my back in which revealed spondlyolithesis L5-S1 grade3, spondlyosis, bulging discs through out,osteoarthritis, and sciatica. I live in constant pain and my doc prescribed me motrin!! It was like an insult but what could I do?? I did ask her why she did not prescribe narcs and she told me that I have chronic pain and that she only gives out narcs to those with acute pain. Whatever the reasoning, I am still here, with my motrin and trying to make it through the day. I just hope one day, I can find some relief myself. I live for the day that I can go out and shop the malls again and live life like I am 31 and not 80 years old! Life is way too short to live your life in pain, so this is why I am seeking an OP.
I hope you get some relief soon! I feel for you and I know your pain!
mistya
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spondylolithesis L4-L5 & L5-S1, spondylosis, spondyloarthropathies, buldging discs, sciatica, and endometriosis.
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hoop123
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 258
Loc: New York
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Mistya,
Sorry to hear about you're suffering. Sounds to me you already have you're records. Get the MRI report (no films), tell you're DR. you want copies of you're currrent records so you can see someone else. If you feel uncomfortable about asking for the records , tell them you want to try alternate therapies like acupuncture and you need the records for that. The MRI report is available on request from the Radiology Firm who did it. They must give it to you. The same goes for the Doc. They are you're records.
Read all of the boards. Find an OP that looks good. Check thier website and order a consult.
From these boards you will find people like yourself, me included, that went through the same thing you are going through. I felt ashamed and guilty that I had my condition. Cronic Pain can play tricks on you're mind. But you're in the right place. Get those records. Pick a reputable OP and in a day or two begin to live you're life again. I wish you all the best and welcome aboard. Good Luck/God Bless.
Hoop
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renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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Hi all,
Good news - I called the doc and was able to have my appt. moved up to tomorrow morning!!! I left them a message that I didn't want to have to suffer through this week and weekend before being examined.
I will take all of your sound advice and let you know how this thing progresses - I suppose I can serve as the guinea pig of what to expect if your in pain and starting at ground zero...heck, I don't know what is wrong with me at this point, but it doesn't take long for pain to create an edge within my personality!
Thanks again and stay tuned.
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bobosan
Newbie
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Midwest
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THAT IS BSSSSSSSSSSSS. That is why they have long acting narcotic medications. IN FACT they don't recommend short acting narcotic medications because they are more addicting than long acting medications.
Believe it or not, some doctors just are not educated in some areas.
I have been to MANY different doctors and met many that were extremely educated in all facets of back pain, rememdies and different tests to help facilitate diagnosis and treatment.
I have also meant ignorant doctors whom felt pain mananagement was for addicts I guess, or didn't believe in providing patients with proper treatment to include pain management as well as treatment to help ease, or eliminate the cause of the pain.
Bobosan
EDIT>>>>I forgot to add. HE HAS AN OBLIGATION TO TREAT YOUR PAIN. You can report him to the medical board for not treating you properly. There is a law in place just for that. You can seek out that law and its implications and how to follow the letter of the law to get what you need done, including reporting him, and getting a referral to a pain doctor without any negative implications. Just do some research on the web. I forget te sites I have went to and have read similiar stories from people and lawyers that have helped these people adn steered them in the right direction.
IT IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE DOCTOR REFUSING TO TREAT A DIABETIC WITH INSULIN. You may view this as different or can't be right, but it IS, and there are hundreds of people who have fought for their right to pain treatment and won. IF your records support your claim, you have NOTHING TO FEAR.
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"Knowledge is POWER
Edited by bobosan (01/06/04 06:50 PM)
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leos
Stranger
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1
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Renolite,
Telling your doc that you tried any controlled ( including VIOXX )meds that were not prescribed to you may raise a big red flag. Telling your doc that a friend of yours with the same type of pain found great relief using a certain med may be a better way to go. My current doc gave me some VIOXX samples during an episode of back pain. When I told her that they didn't seem to provide much relief she prescribed a narcotic to take in addition to the VIOXX. That combination helped me a lot. The prescription ran out long before the pain so I found an OP and use them now. Here in Portland it is tough to find a compassionate doc who will prescribe strong meds.
I know how serious, constant pain can take over your life and I hope your doc provides you with relief.
Good luck!
Leos
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Miss_EttiKit
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Texas
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Good luck tomorrow Renolite. I agree with leos about using a combination. I have sciatica, and when it flares up, it can make me nearly crippled and unable to walk because of the pain.
I have tried everything in the PDR - at least it seems like I have! My PCP gave me samples of Vioxx (which tore my stomach up and provided absolutely zero relief!), Mobic (same result), and a couple of other meds that I've since forgotten. I get trigger-point injections every several months (which are helping less and less), and next up for me is epidural steroid injections.
What I did when I first started with my PCP was to be totally honest about my pain level and how it was affecting my life. (Limiting it in so many ways) I told him that I would do whatever he said (as long as it wasn't surgery, which he absolutely agreed with), but that I really needed his help in getting some relief. By the time I finally sought treatment for the injury that caused my sciatica, I was a complete wreck. I couldn't sleep - and it showed - bad. When he handed me the Vioxx I asked him how long before I could expect some relief. After he told me it sometimes takes a week or two to "kick in," I almost broke down and cried. He saw me with tears in my eyes (and trust me, I was not faking!) and said he'd give me something to help out in the meantine. He gave me a script for Vicodin ES.
In the end, I DID do everything he said - I tried everything and let him know the results. I kept a journal of everything, when I took it, results, what seemed to make the pain worse (running errands all day, up and down the stairs, bowling, etc.) - everything. What this did was show him that I was dead serious about my treatment, and very involved in my own care. At this point, I am on a regimen of Norco 3 x per day and Flexeril 2 x per day. I just started this about 3 months ago, and while the Norco is working great, the Flexeril is not, so I am going to talk to him about replacing the Flexeril with Soma. I have to see him every 60 days, which is fortunately, not a problem for me. When I asked to be changed from Vicodin ES to the Norco because of the amount of APAP - he thought that was a good idea. He even remarked that he could tell I had been doing my homework!
It took my a while to establish this relationship with my PCP, and I try to protect it at all costs. I am absolutely terrified of being "found out" about using OPs. I know that my PCP would probably be investigated if he were to prescribe me the amount that actually works for me - which makes me mad, but that's the way the DEA is running things right now.
One other thing that has been said on this board before, but it really does help if you go in well dressed, and well prepared. Doctors seem to take you more seriously when you come in clean, nicely dressed, and with a little knowledge of your situation. (Which is a very, very fine line! Too much info, and you're immediately labeled a "drug seeker" and dismissed.)
I wish you the best of luck tomorrow. I know how unsettling and downright scary it can be to see a new doctor - especially when you know what you need, but you don't dare say too much or you'll get nothing! You know, we used to be told to be active and involved in our own care, but now it seems as though we are punished for doing just that! Please be sure to post back and let us know how it goes.
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"Ignorance in action is terrifying to behold!"
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bobosan
Newbie
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Midwest
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Renote,
I made some changes to some of my posts after I thought a bit and remembered some info I have learned over the years.
I have dealt with back pain for well over 9 years since I was 20 and in the military.
I have done my homework and sometimes know more than the doc. I also am good at judgin personalities and when to pipe in with info, and when to keep my mouth shut.
The TRUTH of the matter is they have a LEGAL right to treat our pain, going about how to get them to do their job is the hard part.
Dress nice, but not too nice. I personally can't wear shoes that I have to tie, due to not being able to bend over. Watch what you do, how you move, and how you act in the waiting room is just as important as how you act in front of the doctor.
Their are sooooo many things to learn and know to get the proper treatment. Be honest, but also overly honest if you get my drift.
Bobosan
PS I have seen a pain doctor, was put on oxycontin, then 240 norco a month afterwards. So the DEA isn't chasing these docs. They are chasing the docs who give it to EVEYRONE regardless of their condition.
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"Knowledge is POWER
Edited by bobosan (01/06/04 07:12 PM)
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renolite
Newbie
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 45
Loc: Nevada
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Hi all,
Went to the Doc and she precribed me a 6-day steroid regimen and gave me some Flexeril samples. She thinks I have a minor back sprain and that this treatment should relieve the pain and inflammation while my back heals. I shall try it and hope for the best!!! Stat tuned as I will attempt to document my small little saga...
Thanks again to everyone for the support and advice, I will continue this post as things develop.
Renolite
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Just want to quickly affirm that Prednisone was VERY effective in relieving my sciatica pain. Although it took several days to work, the problem has not recurred. But my sciatica was caused by inflammation of the surrounding muscles and not the nerve itself. Very effective in my case!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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