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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 172
Loc: SE USA
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Hello everyone. I rarely post that much but I wanted to post something that I'm going through...
Normally I really enjoy reading everyone's posts here, all the vast experience, knowledge and perhaps most important, the comraderie that I feel so connected with everyone here in - as a result of our plight.
I feel like I personally know many of you although we've never met! And so many posts here that I feel as if I could have written myself the very same things!! Perhaps someday I'll be blessed to become friends with someone here on the board.
Anyway, on to the reason I'm posting and I hope I have the right forum. If it's not, I hope the moderators will not delete my post, okay guys?
Okay then...I have to take medication for severe pain much of the time and I don't mind that. And I guess I have resigned myself to the fact that my all my future endeavors in this life may well in fact, have to be met with some kind of medication in one form or another. And I'm okay with that. A little background, and I know there's so many wonderful people here with much worse problems than I - it truly humbles me and makes me think my problems are no big deal in the grands scheme of things. I am 49, divorced, with a son and share custody and I truly love him with all my heart. What's more, I have a good job in management that pays well. Yet with all that to be grateful for, I am alone with few acquantenences and fewer friends - truth be told, I have none. Outside of work related communication and interaction I really seem to go days without human interaction. Perhaps the pain medication makes me depressed - I don't know, but the holidays seem to intensify everything and I feel I'm living as if I'm guilty of a crime that doesn't exist. The hydro works okay for my physical pain yet is it possible that it magnifies the effects of depression? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Hi Fred,
The holidays have always been a depressing time for me, but I've felt that's been because of me brooding over life circumstances, nothing biological. Do you feel that way the rest of the time? Sounds like you do, but I'm just asking cuz of the thread title?
Ever been evaluated for depression or an anxiety disorder by a psychiatrist? It's a worth a shot- it really can't hurt. (S)he may refer you to a psychologist if it doesn't seem like anything is wrong biochemically...though it's not the easiest thing in the world to diagnose.
Is it that anxiety prevents you from going out as much as you would like, or you're just too depressed to bother, or a combination of the two?
Maybe if you found a woman for companionship, you could go out with people from work and build friends that way. Or go to parties with them? I'm in my 20's, so I'm not up on social interaction amongst 49-year-old's. Maybe you could try match.com to find a girl. My dad (my parents are divorced) is friends mostly with business associates, he'll go out and have dinner with the divorced ones, I guess just to chat and unwind. He and his girlfriend recently broke up, but he used to spend the weekends and like one night a week with her. I think at that age there is a lot less pretense and companionship is important. What also might be an idea is a local chronic pain support group? A hospital might have something like this, or possibly you could ask your doctor where to look. There you meet people who will definitely understand you, much the same way we do, except it's not virtual. Might even meet a nice girlie too who understands the unique needs of a guy in chronic pain. And if she doesn't, you can steal her pain meds  (just kidding, mods)
I have found that if I spend too much time in my head, if I'm too pensive and I'm just reflecting on everything, I tend to only focus on the bad. That's why human interaction is important, at least one of the reasons, so that you can just relax and forget about your problems.
As far as hydro affecting depression, people seem to be split about that. I do remember a few threads. Some people said that it was their miracle antidepressant, others said in the long-term it will only make a true clinical depression worse. It is such a unique, individual brain chemistry thing that it's hard to say for sure.
But one thing that does happen to a lot of people on opiates chronically is they get lethargic. After the good feelings stop, and you keep your dosage more or less the same, you just get kind of numb and you don't really feel like doing much, you kind of have to push yourself. Sometimes I kind of feel like I'm not really living life- like I'm anesthetized to any dramatic swing in emotion. I've experienced that, and I hate it, but unfortunately there's not much I can do about it other than realize that it's not really me, it's the opiates. Other people's mileage may vary, but it is very normal in people who aren't upping their dose for the mental effects.
Welp, I hoped that post helped in some way. If you want to talk to me privately, feel free to PM, I'll be glad to help if I can- I know what it is like to be depressed during the holidays. And while I'm not divorced, I'm the child of divorced parents, so maybe I can identify with your situation on some things.
Good luck.
-yawkaw
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Miss_EttiKit
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Texas
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Hi Fred_S,
I think I understand what you mean about the hydro and depression. (I have definitely "been there & done that!") I don't know about it "magnifying" any depression you may already have, but I know that for me - and for others on this board (from what I've read) - after you've been on hydro for a while, you become kind of flat. Emotions aren't what they used to be - just sort of a "numbed out" feeling. Kind of "blah," most of the time. I don't get as overjoyed at the good things like I used to, and the "lows" don't seem quite as low.
As for the friendship thing - well, I certainly understand that, too. And you know, as trite as it may sound - what your Grandmother told you is really true. To get a friend, you have to be a friend. Another old saying I picked up along the way is, "To get out of your funk, get out of yourself." Go somewhere where there are other people - people in need - volunteer. Join a club or group that focuses on either something you are interested in - or something you know nothing about. Make it a point to talk to at least 3 different people while you are there, and try to make plans to "get together" again outside of that particular function. You be the one to initiate the conversation, and you be sure to give them your phone number (email addy, whatever), and try to get theirs. THEN - follow up on it. Go to church, go to the gym, go bowling, just GO!!! (Please, please, please forgive me for sounding so preachy. I swear I don't mean to, but I promise you - I know from my own experience that this stuff really does work! )
Take your son and go wrap presents at one of the volunteer places that does this at Christmas time. Take him down to the Salvation Army or to one of the homeless shelters and help them serve their Christmas dinners. You will both feel better, you'll be setting a wonderful example for your son, and teaching him a great life lesson all at once.
You've written an intelligent post, and explained your problem, and your feelings about your problem very well - so you can't tell me you don't have at least something to offer someone!
One last thing - do you like yourself? If you don't like yourself, how do you expect anyone else to like you? Your attitude is infectious, and sets the tone for the space you occupy. And, if you'll allow me one more "old saying"... when all else fails, "Fake it 'till you make it!"
Keep in touch with us here. We've all been where you are now, and I promise you - there is a way out. And, you will find it! Chin up! You can do it!
PM me anytime - encouraging other people makes us/me feel better. I'll be home - and most likely online - for the next 2 weeks. We're all here for you, and we'll help you out of this dark, lonely place. (Where we've all been at one time or another in our lives.)
Sending you a big  and wishes for a very happy Holiday season! Keep in touch! And SMILE!!! 
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"Ignorance in action is terrifying to behold!"
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gage
Member
Reged: 11/27/02
Posts: 138
Loc: south central U.S.A.
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HI FRED, NOT MUCH I CAN ADD TO WHATS BEEN SAID ALLREADY!!
BUT YOU SURE MADE A GREAT POST AND I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU COULD POST MORE AND JUST TO GET TO KNOW SOME PEOPLE HERE
BETTER???
IVE MET SOME GREAT PEOPLE AND WE WORKED FROM PM'S TO EMAILS
I GOT ONE BUDDY HERE I EMAIL DAILY ALLMOST LIKE A DEAR ABBY
KINDA FRIEND!! ANYWAY IT HELPS, TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS YOURSELF EVEN IF ITS THROUGH THE COMPUTOR!!!
OH BYE THE WAY, I DONT REALLY HAVE DEPRESSION DUREING THE HOLIDAYS, ID CALL IT DISGUST AND ANGER!! I DONT LIKE ANYTHING ABOUT CHRISTMAS!!! ITS JUST A BIG MONEY TRAP AND
MAKES ME GO INTO DEBT EVEN MORE!!!!! 
THE ONLY PART I LIKE IS SEEING MY KIDS OPEN THERE EXPENSIVE
GIFTS, THAT WILL SOON BE OF NO INTEREST TO THEM AND THEYLL
START PLANNING FOR NEXT YRS HAUL!!
YEP, IM THE SCROOGE OF THE BUNCH I GUESS, AND BELEIVE ME EVERYONE IN MY FAMILY KNOWS IT!!!
I DO TRY TO PLAY A LITTLE EXCITED ROLE ON CHRISTMAS MORN. BUT EVEN THATS PHONY CAUSE REALLY IM JUST GLAD THE WHOLE MESS IS OVER FOR ANOTHER YR. WELL EVERYTHING BUT PAYING ALL THE CREDIT CARD BILLS
HO!HO!HO!MAYBE I AM DEPRESSED AFTERALL!!
PM ME IF YA WANT TO TALK BAD ABOUT CHRISTMAS//
LATER GAGE
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pescado1
Journeyman
Reged: 07/22/03
Posts: 86
Loc: The Southwest
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Hey Fred, I have the reputation around here as a jokester and some people just don't like me. However, depression around the Holidays is no joke. I know what you are going through. I lived for many years in a deep dark place that no one should have to even visit. Until I got some help every day was a struggle just to survive. Holidays were the absolute worst. I was seperated from my family by thousands of miles and besides some superficial relationships at work I was completely alone. There is nothing worse than trying to find a restaurant that is open on Thanksgiving or Christmas and then having to eat alone (Those of you who have had to do this know what I mean. I guess what I am trying to say is get some help for your depression Fred. There are things that can really help and I truly believe that if I hadn't gotten help I wouldn't be typing this post today. I hope this post dosen't offend you I just hate to see someone going through what i had to go through. Take care,
Pescado
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"One man gathers what another man spills"
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 924
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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Miss E, that was the most wonderful post, not preachy at all, cause I was ready to write all those steps, and lo! you said it all and better!!!
Fred; you stated your situation so articulately and you are pleasant to read despite your situation. This means that you are already ahead of your troubles because you are ready to take a part in solving them; instead of bemoaning the fact that they are here.
Actually; one does become resourceful and brave in the face of pain if one wants to live, not just be alive.
You are, so take a bow! 
Miss E's advice was so spot on I can only add my bit;
please PM me; I am absolutely in the trenches with you!  
Next; I will add my secret for meeting clever and appealing people of either sex---find a cause that interests you and is a little exciting too (read the newspapers about your community, you will see what I mean,) then take in a fundraiser.
Voila! Motivated, usually single people who are attractive as friends first, already moving beyond themselves and focussing on what they can do to help others. This and volunteering will open branches of friends; it did for me and I am the original Desperado.
Only about an hour or two is all most places ask for, so you can choose the amount of time; and if you are not interested or the cause makes you more depressed, absolutely it is all right to try something else.
Your time is the best gift you can give, so only give it freely and without reservation.
It is a pleasure to meet you.
I have been married for ten years and my husband is my best friend. But pain puts me in a place alone, and I cry in the shower or the car often before I face others.
The trick is to spit in its face, and stride onstage to your life.
Go.
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 924
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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I just wanted to add that Pescado, Gage, and Yawkaw also gave me a lot of help this morning!
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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xanthippe
Stranger
Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 20
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I don't have anything to add to the wonderful replies you have already received. I just wanted to wish you a happy holiday and say that I enjoyed reading your thoughtful, intelligent post.
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junebug101
Journeyman
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 69
Loc: NY
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Hi Fred, Christmas is definitely a mixed blessing for a lot of us. It's great to see family, but it's also a time that stirs up emotions, emotions that we would rather not confront. I myself find myself a lot more emotional, more sensitive around the holidays. I'm blessed with a wonderful family, but like you, don't have a lot of close friends. Another poster said it right; you have to be a friend to get friends. It's hard because sometimes we give of ourselves without getting back. That's harsh, and can make us (me) cynical.
Anyway, I know how you're feeling, feeling a little of that way myself. Take care, buddy, and feel free to PM me if you want to vent.
BTW, here's something that always cheers me up around the holidays (since I live in Manhattan). I ask a homeless or otherwise down and out person if I can buy them a hot dog and cup of coffee. If they say yes, then I ask what they would like on their hot dog. They look at me like I have two heads, because no one ever cares 2 cents what they want! I buy them a dog, one for myself, and ask if I can sit with them for our lunch. Sometimes doing something nice for someone else is great therapy.
There's a lot of love in you Fred, I have confidence in you! 
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Kid Free and Loving It!
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Miss_EttiKit
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Texas
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Fred??? Oh, Fre-ed? Where are you???
Hey buddy, no fair posting about being depressed, and then just leaving us all hanging! (Can you see me scolding you? Shaking my finger and "tsk, tsking?") I've been quite concerned and worried about you - I thought about you all during the holidays and have been wondering if you survived okay. What - if anything (I hope) - did you end up doing with (or without) your son? Did you go anywhere or do anything? Are you feeling better now?
Please post back and let us all know how you are. Believe it or not - we really do care!
Here's another , and a heart-felt wish for a bang-on, downright wonderful 2004!
Miss E
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"Ignorance in action is terrifying to behold!"
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turcica
seeker
Reged: 12/21/03
Posts: 312
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Miss E, what a great post and the others as well. After reading all of them I have to agree to a repeating comment that many feel similar. I too have found since my diagnosis and need for pain meds I have more or less isolated myself, to a degree. Perhaps some of it is the guilt I feel in having to go around or through the system to procure the necessary meds I need to have some quality of life. Fred, please read the other posts. I can't add anything else because the advise is right on target. As you see you are not alone anymore. You may not be able to reach out and touch someone but having the people on this board concerned about and for you should help some. Please feel free to pm me as well. I am close in age to you and although my circumstances are a bit different, I have an open ear for you. Take care. turcica
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turcica
The only failure is not knowing how to be happy
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Edited by turcica (01/03/04 12:28 PM)
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Seano
Journeyman
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Shelbyville
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Well, I'm not on any kind of narcotics per se, but I do know a bit about depression in my own life. This might sound really harsh, but check out a little scorcher of a book entitled "Man's search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. He was a psychiatrist who managed to survive years of unspeakable horror in the National Socialist camps, and derived an entire school of therapy from it.
Basically, he would ask his patients, "Why don't you commit suicide ?" His theory was that humankind's primary motivational drive was to ascribe some sort of MEANING to their lives. He based this on the observation that the few people who survived the camps were not necessarily the strongest or the luckiest or the most ruthless, but those that had a REASON to live: a loved one, a life's work, whatever, so long as it gave them HOPE to go on living for another day.
It's extremely strong stuff. One time long after the war someone was showing him those photos of all the prisoners lying on the bunks, and wondering aloud about how miserable they must have been. Frankl countered this with the fact that these people appeared very HAPPY to him, as they probably had a rare day off from shoveling frozen dirt barefoot in the snow due to illness or whatever, and the chance to huddle 9 men under a blanket for a while, and maybe even finagle an extra slice of bread...
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kittykatbone
Member
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 150
Loc: City of lost Angels
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i'm gonna look for that book myself!
i could tell you from my 'previous' existence using hydro & tranquilizers that they can deepen a depression. at first they work well, but then they only 'numb' you, as well as de-motivate you.
everyone here thats posted has given some good advice... i hope you're still following along.
GAGE is right too! he's a good dude. the net makes it possible to open up new doors for people from anywhere to get in touch with people from everywhere that they might not have otherwise.
i have to say... THIS WAS THE WORST HOLIDAY (X-MAS) that i've had in a LONG time & i currently have a live-in girlfriend, many friends, & many many aquaintences. too much rush-rush, $$$ spent, etc. HUMBUG to this year!
i read where (some time ago) it was normal to treat depression with hydro. personally, i found that to be not such a good idea in the long run & can understand why they do not use that method anymore. the highs are higher, but as said above ~ the lows are lower.
GOOD ADVICE FROM ALL! stay well & please give us an update.
SINcerely luis
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some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug
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chantal
Board Addict
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 305
Loc: US
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Fred, hydros definitely will make you more depressed. I used hydros left over from a prescription the doctor had given me a while back and I took these left-over pills to come off Ultram which I had taken for months (chose these myself). It sounds crazy but I began to prefer Ultram over all the other stuff since it did not make me so terribly tired all the time. When I took the left-over hydros I became seriously depressed, and I tend to not be a depressed person at all. I thought it was the Ultram WDs. But it was not. I stopped taking hydros and the depression completely went away. I never got depressed when I took just plain codeine a year or so ago, not even during codeine WDs. Codeine and tramadol (Ultram) seems to not cause such a depression, but, of course, will cause the usual other WD symptoms when coming off. I have read a year ago or so that these companies were changing all the hydros somewhat to make them less addictive. Haven't read anything else about it but assume that we are now taking are the new and improved hydros, which seem to cause depression (I can verify that since I do not tend to suffer from depression a whole lot). I had also been given hydros a couple of years ago after an injury and these did not make me depressed whatsoever. So it must have something to do with these current hydros. And yes, being on any such med will isolate you over time. Because your whole day begins to revolve around the pills and the pain relief and people become less and less important. But there are many people who do not take any kinds of meds and don't have much interaction with others outside the workplace either, and are blissfully happy. I hope that you are feeling a little better now and have put those holidays behind you and are looking forward to spring.
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kittykatbone
Member
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 150
Loc: City of lost Angels
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chantal, i tend to agree that hydro, or ANY narcotic painkillers will make me a bit more irratable than usual (codeine included for me).
Ultram & occasional Temgesics, on the other hand, have seemed to geatly improve my overall mood since i switched over.
good luck finding the right med & dosage(s) that will work for you.
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some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug
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