BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Highway to Heaven
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What is the "fatal dose" of hydro?
Ideally in several cuts (e.g. taken all at once, taken over 24 hours, etc.)
Does weight or tolerance play a role?
Yakyaw3? Anyone?
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gottadoit
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/21/03
Posts: 269
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I admit that I'm a little nervous about this question. If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to know?
I think that a fatal dose would definately depend on the person. A person who is in chronic pain could easily take 20 a day and function perfectly. You give 20 to a person who has never taken narcotics and the effects could be deadly. It completely depends on what a person's tolerance level is.
Take care.
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 466
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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And I'm a firm believer that it's tolerance that often times leads to 'accidental overdose'. Sad, but true. For me, I think if I took 10 10/650 in one day and especially in one dose, I'd die. But then, the most I've ever taken in one sitting was 2 1/2 (total of 25 mgs hydro) and wound up puking for about 30 minutes after being nauseated for an hour. Neat. Anywho, each individual is different, and my tolerance isn't that high.
Good luck!
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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I agree with Zeph,
And I think - although opioids *could* kill someone at a really high dose that had no tolerance (due to respiratory depression or just forgetting to breathe) -
I still think that tolerance aside, if you are talking about pharmaceutical hydro/apap - the APAP would kill *anyone* long before the hydro would. The person would essentially overdose on Tylenol, which is really ugly (liver hepatoxicity and probably go into a coma) -
Anyone WITH a really , really high opioid tolerance - should *seriously* pay attention to APAP cautions- -because if it does start to take someone a crazy amount of hydrocodone per dose to get any effect, then they are putting themselves at serious risk of overdosing on acetaminophen (APAP)
I think if one's tolerance to hydrocodone gets to the point of requiring them to take un-safe amounts of APAP to make the medicine work for them - (but they have a need to stay on opioids) - then it is definitely time to put aside hydrocodone and start looking really, really hard for a brave doctor that will prescribe a stronger opioid (oxy, dilaudid, etc....) -
There is no real answer to your question, because like others have mentioned , alot would depend on tolerance. I have read an article of a kid (well, teenager whatever) that had no opioid tolerance at all, was totally just experimenting or whatever that overdosed on 200mg's of hydrocodone - BUT - the thing here is, opioids are NOT toxic to the body in way that would poison/kill you. If someone died from too many opioids it would be from losing consciousness and breathing ability , and basically suffocating themselves.
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//zeuzjuz
Edited by zeuzjuz (11/08/03 01:48 AM)
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TwG
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 68
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Opiates don't kill you like most drugs, they just make your heart slow down to the point where it stops beating, or is beating so slow you don't get enough oxygen and you die. Unlike most drugs, that actually poison you, opiates do not poison you. This is why with narcan, no matter how much you take you won't die if they give it to you in time. The range is very different for each person. Some people can eat 200 mgs of oxycodone with no tolerence and not die, others will die with 50 mgs. For rats the
LD50: 375 mg/kg
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 895
Loc: usa
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Actually, the opiates have no cardiovascular effects except maybe lowering blood pressure....it's respiratory depression, you go to sleep...respiratory rate slows to 10 bpm, 8 bpm, 4bpm...then you just "forget to breath"...narcan..fights the respiratory depression...now if you quit breathing...of course your heart stops...but it's secondary....and I think too many people have underestimated their own tolerance so be careful...odd question, why do you ask?
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TwG
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 68
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Narcan blocks the endorphin receptors so the opiate/opioids can't bind to them, it doesn't work by "fighting the respiratory depression" . As for forgeting to breath, well than how come people can OD and die while they are awake? There breathing gets so shallow that they die from lack of oxygen. Also, how come if you use cocaine while ODing it can bring you back? I could be wrong, but thats how it was described to me.
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pescado1
Journeyman
Reged: 07/22/03
Posts: 86
Loc: The Southwest
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The Tylenol would kill you before the Hydrocodone would.
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"One man gathers what another man spills"
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TwG
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 68
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I don't know about that, I have taken 13 norcos at 1 time and I'm pretty sure that could kill someone with no tolerence. Its unusual for less then 15 grams of APAP to kill someone.
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rosieposie5
Stranger
Reged: 11/07/03
Posts: 11
Loc: ct
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why did you take 13 norco at one time??? that's drug abuse if i very saw one. don't even thing about what is a fatal dose. if your in trouble seek help. this thread is fatal and i have seen the turn out of drug overdose's and it is not a happy sight. when family members are around crying and their son or daughters are on the floor with a tube down their throat. WHY ARE YOU PUSHING ON HIS/HER CHEST. what am i going to say ???
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happy go lucky
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TwG
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 68
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It's called tolerence, I took 13 at a time cause I needed to to feel them. This is after several months of opiate use though. Don't you worry about me though, I know what I am doing and I knew the risks of APAP poisoning. My liver is fine though, and I don't take hydro anymore, that was then.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 895
Loc: usa
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Clearly you have seen and treated many OD's! The number one problem with overdose of any opiate narcotic is respiratory depression....and narcan's mode of action reverses that....but hey...what would I know, I only spent 7 years in an ICU and Narcan isn't used to reverse cocaine OD as with Cocaine OD you generally have heart rhythm disturbances & stroke from increased blood pressure....hence cocain OD is treated with supportive therapy & cardiac meds...and meds to lower blood pressure....
Edited by IMSUSCOT1 (11/20/03 05:27 PM)
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