Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
|
|
I read a post that somebody's doctor had recommended adding ibuprofen to their hydro to make it more effective. I've gotten to the point where one Lortab in the AM is no longer sufficient for my pain - and I hate to take two at a time so I wanted to find out from those of you that have added ibuprofen to their hydro how well it works? I know ibuprofen can be damaging to the liver just as APAP can so I want to make sure the double up wouldn't be a further strain on my liver. Comments or thoughts?
|
wcs42
Member
Reged: 03/25/03
Posts: 143
Loc: ky usa
|
|
Vicoprofen is what you are talking about. I have never tried it. It is available as a combination of 7.5mg hydro and 200mg ibroprofen. I have heard people say that it is very effective on there pain. It would cause less liver problems than apap containing products. Because it only has 200mg of ibroprofen. It is a fairly new product so there are no generic equalvilent available. So that makes it more expensive.. wcs
--------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Ben Franklin
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
Hi Legit -- Vicoprofen is available as brand and generic in 7.5/200 dosage. IB is far less toxic to the liver than APAP, but hard on the stomach for many. I don't know if IB potentiates hydro better or worse than APAP. Personally I never touch anything with APAP.
On the positive side of IB, there is a lot of anecdotal/epidemiological evidence that regular use of IB - as with arthritis patients - reduces the risk of alzheimers, heart attack, diabetes and some forms of cancer (e.g. colon cancer). You can find the reports on these studies at Life Extension Foundation site. The general theory now published in several articles in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN Magazine is that many diseases of aging in fact result from chronic systemic inflamation. IB is an excellent anti-inflamatory, as are the statin drugs used to lower cholesterol. APAP is not an anti-inflamatory. LEF claims that taking 900mg of PPC 2X/day, which they sell as 'GastroPro' will, significantly lowers risk of GI damage from IB. I have also seen anecdotal reports that STANDARDIZED Milk Thistle Extract (good for your liver) reduces the stomach lesions caused by IB and aspirin. Just to be sure, I always take a Milk Thistle Extract capsule with IB.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
Vicoprofen generic is now available. It is manufactured by Teva.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
antique
Banned
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 215
Loc: east coast
|
|
Great info, Plotinus.  Do you take the IB and milk thistle regularly with no stomach problems? I would switch to IB if I could find a way to keep it from upsetting my stomach. It works better for my pain, but causes me stomach upset.
What is PPC?
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
Quote:
Great info, Plotinus. Do you take the IB and milk thistle regularly with no stomach problems? I would switch to IB if I could find a way to keep it from upsetting my stomach. It works better for my pain, but causes me stomach upset.
What is PPC?
Here is the blurb from LEF product description. They have also published several articles on the subject in their magazine. The articles generally cite the original research.
"GastroPro
900 mg 60 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 499
Approved for the treatment of chronic liver diseases in many European countries, PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine) is a soy extract that is listed in the Physicians Desk Reference of the United States. An accumulating body of research suggests that PPCs umbrella of protection may extend from the liver to the stomach, pancreas and cardiovascular system. There are no known contraindications, side effects or interactions with other drugs.
GastroPro contains pure polyenylphosphatidylcholine. Those who should seek to immediately add GastroPro to their supplement program include those with:
Hepatitis C (but not those with hepatitis B)
Liver cirrhosis or impaired liver function due to aging
Pancreatitis
NSAID-induced gastritis and ulceration
Each bottle provides 60 capsules of 98% pure PPC, a percentage that is identical to the European pharmaceutical standards set for this product. And GastroPro is available for a fraction of the price that PPC sells for in Europe as a drug.
Other ingredients: gelatin, sorbitol, glycerin, purified water, and propylene glycol.
Dosage and use
Suggested dose: two 900-mg capsules a day. "
***
Yes, I take Milk Thistle Extract with breakfast and dinner and anytime I take an IB. But IB up to 400mg doesn't generally bother me. The 800mg Rx version makes me a bit queasy.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
antique
Banned
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 215
Loc: east coast
|
|
Thanks a bunch, Plotinus. This could open new doors for me.
|
Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
|
|
Thanks Plotinus for the informative posts! I have some of the Milk Thistle and have just recently started taking it. The ibuprofen added to my regular hydro really does make a difference. I also like the Vicoprofen, it just doesn't seem as strong to me as the Lortab.
|
BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 409
Loc: Bed
|
|
Hmm... Vicoprofen... Does anyone know if it comes in strengths that have 10mg of hydro? If so, what are the combos (10/200, 10/400, etc.?) and are all the brand names Vicoprofen that the doc would write on the script, or are the 10mg hydros called something different like lorprofen?
I think I might ask my doc for this, especially if it is out in generic and cheaper, and only if there is a 10mg mix to drop the apap intake!!!
|
LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
|
|
I believe it comes as 10/200 but no generic is available.
--------------------
LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
|
night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
|
|
Vicoprofen is 7.5/200, FYI.
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
|
DaggerEyez
Journeyman
Reged: 10/18/02
Posts: 50
Loc: USA
|
|
Night_shade, it comes in both 7.5 and 10mg doses with 200mg ibuprofen.
One is available in generic and the newer is not.
|
BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 409
Loc: Bed
|
|
Would there be any strange effects mixing vicoprofin 10/200 with hydro/APAP 10/325 and/or oxy/APAP 10/325?
I guess it's just the question of whether it's ok to mix acetaminophin with ibuprofin in large doses, with hydro and/or oxy thrown in the mix.
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
What is the deal with mixing APAP & IB? I think it is discouraged, but not sure why.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 409
Loc: Bed
|
|
I called a local pharmacy to see if they have vicoprofen in stock and asked about the side effects of taking both.
She said vicoprofin 7.5/200 is available in both brand and generic and the new 10/200 brand is not available for her to order yet so it must be very new.
She said it wasn't a problem combining APAP and ibuprofin. She was more concerned about me taking them together and getting double the hydro.
|
night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
|
|
My local pharmacist also said there was no hydro/ibu 10/200 available in generic or brand name yet.
I don't think there's any reason you can't take the vicoprofen and norco/vicodin/lortab/etc together. I would definitely not take them at the same time, though. I would take them about 2 hours apart. For example, take one norco then a vicoprofen 2 hours later and alternate meds however far apart is required for your pain prescription.
People take both ibuprofen and tylenol all the time. And that's a pretty low dose of ibuprofen (equal to 1 Advil), so I wouldn't think stomach upset would be the chief concern--unless hydro bothers your guts. I'd watch the hydro intake, tho.
(Sorry, people, I type in the dark to improve my typing skills and so make lots of typos!
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
|
BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 409
Loc: Bed
|
|
I got Vicoprofen since reading this thread (I never knew it existed) and I wanted to say it works GREAT. I got the generic 7.5/200 made by TEVA with 5161 imprinted on one side of the white circular unscored tablet.
Because of my hydro tolerance and I am used to taking 3 10/325 norcos (with 10mg hydro) at a time to relieve my pain. To get the equivalent 30mg of hydro, I took 4 of the 7.5/200 Vicoprofens when I first got it and found that not only was my pain eliminated, but I was feeling a very euphoric high! Now I only need to take 2 or 3 of the Vicoprofens at a time (15mg - 22.5mg of hydro).
I also checked and found that the daily max ibuprofen is 1200mg on most sites (6 pills a day), but on some sites it says the max is between 1200mg and 3200mg (6 - 16 200 mg pills per day).
I found Vicoprofen to be a really nice change for me for the following reasons:
1. I was bumping up against the 2600-4000mg daily max apap and vicoprofen has NO APAP so my liver is very happy now!
2. I found that when the hydro was combined with ibuprofen it gave me better relief of my back pain than with apap and with less hydro. I think this may be because my body was so used to getting flooded with APAP that a tolerance developed to APAP and the Advil was a nice change that my body wasn't used to. Plus the Advil acted differently in reducing the inflamation of the muscles around my spine and discs, so it attacked the pain in a different way!!
3. I now alternate throughout the day between hydro/apap I have left and Vicoprofen and find that not only am I well below the limits for both APAP and Ibuprofen, but alternating keeps the pain in check by hitting the pain with an analgesic and an anti-inflamatory throughout the day.
4. I need to take less hydro to get the same relief!
sorry if this was too long, but I just want to say it is a great product that works for me on several levels.
I am surprised more people don't talk about it on here and take it since one of the key selling points is it doesn't have APAP and helps alot of people who are hitting the 2600mg-4000mg daily APAP range.
Does anyone else have any experiences taking Vicoprofen they care to share? I am curious to see if others found it as effective as I did.
|
Dukey
Journeyman
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 88
Loc: New England
|
|
Ibuprofen is a better pain reliever then APAP. Its also an anti-inflammatory. Thats why sometimes they'll give you a script for 800mg Motrins. Never saw a script for 750mg APAP
But NSAIDS are very harsh on your GI track and long tern use is not recommended. Plus they interact with meds that are affected by aspirin like blood thinners (unlike APAP)
However it is good to mix it up every now and again, it makes for a pleasant surprise.
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
Limit for IB is generally 2400mg day. They regularly give arthritis patients that Rx (3x800mg). Most of the epidemiological studies about IB reducing alzheimers, colon cancer, heart attacks etc. were done on that patient population. Some researchers are now trying to determine the lowest daily dose of IB that will still prove prophalactic.
Do keep in mind that IB can also cause GI, liver and kidney problems. Did you see the blurb I put in one of the threads about GastroPro from the Life Extension Foundation ? It's worth a look.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
DaggerEyez
Journeyman
Reged: 10/18/02
Posts: 50
Loc: USA
|
|
Quote:
But NSAIDS are very harsh on your GI track and long tern use is not recommended.
This is a fact.
It is also a fact that long term use of high dose APAP is hard on the GI tract too.
|
BlackCat
Old Hand
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 409
Loc: Bed
|
|
Any idea why OPs don't offer Vicoprofen? Or do some?
Thanks for the info on the daily max ibuprofen - 2400 mg. It was in the middle of the range I found and is equivalent to 12 7.5mg hydro / 200mg ibuprofens a day!
|
plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
|
|
OnlineMedications.net carries generic Vicoprofen. They were very good, a couple months ago. don't know if their situation has deteriorated or not.
--------------------
"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
|
bluejeanbaby
Stranger
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 3
|
|
I take vicoprofen now and I love it! I noticed it gives me less mood swings than the apap (alot less) I'm far more even keel. My doc said to add acouple of advils with the vicoprofen to give it more kick, ibuprofen is good for you too. I will also mix a vicodin es with a vicoprofen and the relief is amazing. Not only is my migraine gone,and I can get out of bed and play with my kids, but I actaully have a real nice euphoria too! btw what is a tmj migraine?
|
drew684
Newbie
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 28
Loc: California
|
|
I took the vic-profen and was immediately sick to my stomach. A tmj is a jaw grinding headache. I used to get them 'til I started chewing gum, large wads so I don't grind while driving.
Had headaches from that all my life.
|
Fiver
Member
Reged: 10/02/03
Posts: 104
Loc: Michigan
|
|
I've always found Vicoprofen to be more effective than even 10/325! Maybe because Vicoprofen was not a generic, maybe because the ibuprofen worked excellent as an analgesic, I dunno... but like bluejeanbaby said, I even got the Happy Warmies(tm) with it. Alas, my gut won't let me take NSAIDs anymore.
By the way and a tad off-topic, for those who suffer from TMJ disorders, there is a device called the NTI-tss which is worn at night to take some of the slack off of the head and facial muscles which is the primary cause of TMJ pain. Check out the info at wwwdotheadachehopedotcom or PM me for more info. This weird little piece of plastic has helped make my life a LOT more bearable. It costs around $500 for the manufacture and adjustments by a dentist who is open-minded enough to try it -- a lot LESS than three different medications every month, sick days off work due to pain, and safer than surgery! I've not yet met anyone who has been fitted with the NTI-tss who was not extremely happy with it.
-Fiver
|
Tiger47
Member
Reged: 08/23/03
Posts: 102
Loc: Georgia
|
|
I suffer from TMJ also. My Maxillofacial doctor sent me to a othrodontics which fitted me with a splint. He took molds of my mouth and all kinds of stuff sent it off and back came a 750.00 piece of plastic that causes me more pain when I wear it. I'm not saying that yours did not work, I'm glad it did. For several years my jaw would pop when I would eat and sometime pop out but after opening my mouth several time real wide it would pop back into place. Well just over a year ago I'll never forget it. I was eating some fretos (sp) chips when my jaw popped out. And has never went back into place. The cartildge that is held into place by a legiment has torn and is completly gone. That means jaw bones sitting on jaw bones, no chushin at all. The whole side of my head is swolen all the way to the back side of my neck. Can you believe my doctor perscribed me vioxx? Yes vioxx helps my granny with her arthur but I think my situation is a little (big) difference. He finally gave my 5 mg hydro but that was back in January and said that he would not continue scripting it because of the side effects. There was no use in arguing with him. Just get it from OP's.
I'm suppose to wear the splint as much as possible day and night. Hell I can't even eat unless I've recently taken some meds for pain. I can't remember the last rib-eye steak i was able to eat. Maybe the splint will help if the cartildge between the jaw bones are still in place and maybe could have pervented mine from coming all the way out and not going back in if I would have had it earlier. The doc says that I have to try this splint for about a year before surgery. He said that it may eventually go back into place. I really don't see that happening. I'm suppose to go see him this month and I'm going to demand the surgery. It can't be any worse than the hell I'm going though now. He said that he would have to put a wire or screw in my jaw to hold the cartildge in place.
I hope the splint keeps helping you and maybe things won't get as bad as they have for me.
tiger47
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
I have had TMJ for the past 2 years, and it is terrible. there really is no easy way out. I have one of the little $500 fixtures to wear at night, so my molar region teeth dont grind, so instead I wake up with pain from grinding my front teeth on the plastice fixture and instead of pain all around my head, I get shooting pains up the middle of my face, into my eyes, and the center of my head. my dentist will give me 10-15 Vicoprofens once every few months just to give me a little vacation from the suffering for a few days, but definitely wont refill or do it on a regular basis.
back to the subject at hand, yes, Vicoprofen works miracles for me. I would rather take 2 vicoprofens than any larger amount of norco/lortab or even Percocet. I guess the IBUprofen works on your body and the tylenol works solely on your brain, forgive me if thats not true. with the vicoprofen I really do feel the relief spreading throughout my body. among many other injuries I received in a car accident 2 years ago, I injured my lower spine, which in turn caused nerve damage throughout both of my legs, so the relief the vicoprofen provides for my legs alone is great. works wonderful on my other my pain from the numerous other injuries as well. for the longest time I would not buy it from OPs because whether brand or generic, it is substantially more expensive than norco or lortab. but I finally gave in, went to medsviaweb, paid $200 for #100 pills, and they have provided so much more pain relief than the norco and haver lasted much longer. well worth the money.
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
Quote 
