night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I was wondering if anyone has used Proglumide (a drug fromerly used in gastric ulcer treatment) specifically for opiate tolerance reduction. Evidently it is frequently given to opiate-tolerant cancer patients to reduce tolerance and thereby make the narcotic analgesics more effective at lower doses.
More info about proglumide follows:
...many people are unaware that both enhanced effectiveness of narcotic analgesics AND prevention or reversal of tolerance is readily achievable through the oral use of up to 200-250 mg of Proglumide [(DL)-4-Benzamido-N,N-dipropylglutaramic acid]. [See Ott 1999; Watkins et al. 1984]
The work of Watkins suggests there may be a therapeutic dosage window with diminished results above it but more detailed work to define this is apparently lacking.
Rather than simply augment the action of the opiates, proglumide actually interferes with the anti-opioid activity of the neuropeptide CCK.
The chronic administration of opiates, or spinal cord and other CNS injuries, elevates the level of Cholecystokinin (CCK) that is present. Such elevated levels exert an antagonistic effect on opioid activity resulting in significantly diminished analgesic effects. (Watkins et al. 1984; Xu et al. 1993 & 1994)
It is this rise in CCK levels that directly leads to the condition known as drug tolerance and the corresponding increase in its anti-opioid activity that requires the opiate user to use increasingly larger amounts to achieve the same effects.
This anti-opiate effect can be prevented or even reversed through the administration of CCK inhibitors such as proglumide. (Watkins et al. 1984)
Besides just interfering with the adverse action of CCK on opiate activity, proglumide is also known to augment the analgesic effect of opiates. Often this can provide a higher quality of analgesia for those patients who suffer from an incomplete response to pain medications.
Watkins & coworkers reported that proglumide reversed morphine tolerance and also 1) hastened the onset of analgesia, 2) increased the peak levels, and 3) prolonged the duration.
They suggested that not simply did this indicate that effective narcotic doses could be decreased but it also indicated that proglumide might be able to enhance the effects of other procedures, such as acupuncture, which involve endogenous opiates. (Watkins et al. 1984)
Proglumide is a nonselective CCK inhibitor that was formerly employed as an anti-ulcer medication (Hahne et al. 1981). It shows NO analgesic effects of its own.
Although proglumide is now considered to be an obsolete pharmaceutical due to changes in our understandings of ulcer etiology, it has already seen extensive pharmacological and toxicological testing proving its safety and has been approved for use in humans.
It has largely fallen into disuse but is still available in bulk via chemical houses or as a pharmaceutical in Europe and Africa sold under the trade name Milid and Milide.
Other CCK inhibitors show similar properties (Idänpään-Heikkilä et al. 1997; Xu et al. 1993). However, beyond simply having seen previous use in humans, proglumide is both inexpensive and nontoxic. (Ott 1999)
Proglumide is not some sort of magic bullet for completely eliminating the risk of tolerance development and addiction as its effects are only effective for a limited duration before tolerance to IT begins to develop. (After 8 days its effectiveness begins to wane) The work of Kellstein & Mayer 1990 suggests that successful therapeutic/maintenance applications will probably require its discontinuation for a week after each week of use. More work is needed to better define the precise parameters of its effective use for this purpose.
Despite this, proglumide has already demonstrated itself to be of value both in pain management and as an adjunct to maintaining a narcotic addiction within a larger program of harm reduction (Anonymous 2000; Ott 1999).
What is fascinating is how few drug educators, drug treatment facilities or even drug users are aware of this despite it being readily available information for nearly 20 years.
If development of tolerance and the high price of a sustained addiction are truly as serious of a problem as we all agree that they are, one can only wonder how it is that, despite the tools existing to remove or at least reduce this problem, there seems to be no interest or research except on a limited scale related to specific small areas of chronic pain management and understanding.
The current misguided approach of substituting methadone is commonly reported to actually cause MORE perceptual and thinking problems than the opiates it replaces PLUS methadone is known to cause physical damage to internal organs that are not encountered with opiate use itself.
Harm reduction approaches would benefit greatly by using proglumide as a cornerstone and making it readily available to both narcotic users and abusers.
Those who will most certainly object include organized crime and drug dealers who enjoy the obscene profits reaped from escalating drug tolerances, and possibly also the so-called drug educators that sadly often seem to be the ones most in need of some factual education.
There are many problems associated with opiate use and abuse. While the majority of these are legal in origin, the most sensible approach would be to ameliorate [or mitigate] those that arent.
Increased analgesic effectiveness and prevention of tolerance are two obvious areas where harm reduction is readily possible TODAY. Both sufferers of chronic pain and narcotic addicts stand to benefit from having their needs met and their health risks simultaneously decreased.
As this is first and foremost a health problem, the current approach of harm maximization is both counterproductive and unacceptable. To a rationale or caring mind it might even be perceived of as unethical and amoral.
Not only do sufferers of chronic pain and narcotic addicts stand to benefit from such harm reduction approaches but, by decreasing drug-associated crimes, a significant area of the true drug problem can be directly addressed, thereby benefiting society as a whole.
SO, if anyone has tried this, can you go into detail about how much, when, results, etc. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture

Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1211
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Every once in a blue moon there is a thread around here someplace that mentions Proglumide and other potentiators. There used to even be a "Who Offers It, How Much" thread for this stuff (I think).
Thank you for posting that info. I'm also wondering why this doesn't rate more discussion. Certainly it's relevant for lots of us.
Somebody PM'd me recently with information the KETAMINE is used to reverse tolerance in patients with very high opiate tolerance. Not sure how many this would apply to, but it's interesting. I had thought Ketamine was primarily recreational.
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RedManPLus
Stranger

Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Canada
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I have the exact same paper you posted from...
Here's a link to Medline:
Medline
Typing in 'proglumide' gets 806 hits.
So there is a lot of renewed interest in...
Cholecystokinin or CCK antagonists.
Here's an example:
The cholecystokinin antagonist proglumide enhances the analgesic effect of dihydrocodeine.
McCleane GJ.
Rampark Pain Centre, Lurgan, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom.
AIM: To investigate the potential pro-analgesic effect of the non-specific CCK antagonist proglumide on the analgesia produced by dihydrocodeine. METHOD: A double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover study of 30 adult subjects. RESULTS: Mean pain scores fell from a baseline of 8.12-7.89 during the placebo phase (N.S.) and to 6.82 during the proglumide phase (P
I suffer from Chronic Pancreatitis...
And they've used CCK antagonists in Japan...
For this condition.
I'm going to get some...
It's very safe and non-toxic...
About as safe as benzodiazepines.
For opiate tolerance...
Apparantly...
One would take this drug intermittently...
One week on...
One week off...
And it vastly reduces opiate tolerance.
These CCK antagonists...
Are going to be a big thing...
Over the next few years.
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actonbell
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma
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Here is a cut and paste from one of Trampy's posts. I hope it was alright to do this. I wonder if milid would work with ultram? It has a slow tolerance build up, but I am noticing after about 6 or 7 months use I am getting a little tolerant to it.
Quote:
Jonathan Ott said that the dose should be 200 mg, and so for a long time i was cutting the 400-mg tablets in half. Well, one time i didn't, and the difference was like night and day. I'll never again cut those tabs to take a lower dose. 200 mg is a pure waste. No wonder so many people here have said it did nothing for them. I'll bet they weren't taking enough.
So experiment ... and don't believe everything you read about proglumide because it might not be true for you. For instance, i've never noticed anything like tolerance developing, even after daily use for weeks.
Just one article in a journal says something about noticing tolerance and everyone keeps repeating it over and over and over again. It all started from that one-sentence remark. Well, nobody replicated that result in a published article. So what does that tell you? Maybe it's a fluke or an error in observation or analysis. Or maybe it really was true for the rats in the experiment. But i'm not a rat.
If anyone has any personal experience with this anti-ulcer/anti-stress medicine, i'd love to hear about it.
This is the first drug i've ever heard of that works to reduce the sensitivity of the CCK system. Does anyone know of others?
Trampy
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All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground....and miss.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Does anyone know the US equivalent name for this drug (marketed as???) or where to get it? Can you get it in the US at all?
Thanks in advance!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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actonbell
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma
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Put proglumide in the search function. In the who and how much forum. Best I can tell there is no US pharmacy and very few online ones that sell it. But if you have an iop you know and trust they might be able to get it for you. Doesn't hurt to ask. It is called Milid, but I am not sure if that is it's US name.
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All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground....and miss.
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zippypinhead
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/03
Posts: 25
Loc: West Coast
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How soon before after during your opiate dose do you take the proglumide?
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RedManPLus
Stranger

Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Canada
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Here's a dosage example of a very similar CCK antagonist:
Clinical evaluation of oral administration of a cholecystokinin-A receptor antagonist (LOXIGLUMIDE) to patients with acute, painful attacks of chronic pancreatitis: a multicenter dose-response study in Japan.
Shiratori K, Takeuchi T, Satake K, Matsuno S; Study Group of Loxiglumide in Japan.
Department of Gastroenterology, Tokyo Women's Medical University, Tokyo, Japan.
INTRODUCTION: Cholecystokinin (CCK)-receptor antagonists have been found to markedly reduce the severity of pancreatitis and improve survival in experimental animal models of acute pancreatitis. CCK appears to play an important role in the development and progression of acute pancreatitis, and the recent development of CCK antagonists has provided a new approach to the treatment of acute pancreatitis in humans. AIMS: The therapeutic efficacy of a CCK-A receptor antagonist, loxiglumide, in patients with painful acute attacks of chronic pancreatitis was evaluated. METHODOLOGY: A multicenter dose-response controlled trial was conducted at 110 institutions in Japan from June 1993 to December 1994. Chronic pancreatitis was diagnosed for all patients on the basis of the Japanese criteria for chronic pancreatitis. Two-hundred seven patients were randomized to oral treatment with loxiglumide (300, 600, and 1,200 mg/d) or placebo for 4 weeks. The efficacy of treatment was evaluated on the basis of clinical symptoms, physical signs, and serum pancreatic enzyme levels. The groups were comparable with respect to age, sex, etiology, complications, and previous treatment. RESULTS: The improvement rate of the abdominal and/or back pain was 46% in the loxiglumide 300-mg group, 59% in the 600-mg group, and 52% in the 1,200-mg group, and it was 36% in the placebo group (600 mg versus placebo: p
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For this condition, they found 600 mg/day of loxiglumide to be the optimal dose.
Though it's only an abstract, note there is zero mention
of toxicity or side effects.
I'm sure you can get a lot more information by browsing
through Medline.
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RedManPLus
Stranger

Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Canada
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Here's some more info:
Info at This Link
Proglumide has been known for many years but it is a low potency CCK antagonist. Its new derivatives lorglumide and loxiglumide are powerful peripheral CCK antagonists.
Therapeutic trials are in progress worldwide and soon some of these drugs will be marketed. The indications of CCK antagonists are: chronic and acute pancreatitis, biliary colic and dyskinesias, delayed gastric emptying, appetite control, GORD, Irritable bowel syndrome and constipation.
And you can buy proglumide from Australia here:
BuyPharmacyMedicine.com
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