johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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I have been running through my mind as to why I fail at hydro holidays.
The Answer:
All through my Acute/chronic pain i have been on meds. When my youngest daughter was born I was taking hydo. when my wife almost died i was on hydro. when i got a new job I was on hydro. when I got laid off I was on hydro. Christmas day I was on Hydro.
The point being all major and minor events in my life, for the last three years i have had acute/chronic pain. I do not know life with out pain meds. Granted they do allow me to enjoy, or unenjoy all of these events. I could not function very well in pain.
Today I went for a urine drug screen and failed. But i have valid scripts for the meds. I am nervous because I am going to have to deal with proving this.
I AM TRIED OF NEEDING SOMETHING TO HELP ME GET THROUGH THE DAY.
Please pray for me that I will go on a permenate holiday (granted there will be times when I need pain meds BUT not several times a day.
But I suspect that I will not be a good husband/Dad for the next several weeks. I do not want to loose this jobe because I do feel selfish about pain meds. My family is second seat to a little pill!!
I don't want to have to worry is the doctor going to refill my meds tommaroo if not how will I get enough money for a OP.I want to get out of bed and see my kids first not go to the kitchen and take my hydro.
PLEASE I need encouagement during my holiday!!!
Thanks to all who pray, cross there fingers or otherwise send me poitive energy 
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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zoe11
Journeyman

Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Other side of the moon
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It's doesn't seem right to not pass your drug test if you have a valid prescription. I use pain medication as well and have passed drug tests for jobs on every job I've had. It used to be that employers wanted people to bring in their scripts, but that is illegal now.
Sorry to hear that.
Zoe
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture

Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Thank god I work for myself, and don't have to deal with drug test nonsense.
Common sense would be that meds used for legitimate medical reasons should not be grounds to fail a drug screen. Unless you are a professional athlete!
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sheenafur
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 225
Loc: California
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Hi John,
You sound like you're in so much pain--I'm so sorry. If you are in physical pain, though, why do you feel bad/guilty for treating it with medication? Now, if you're taking the Hydro for emotional pain, then, yes, you should perhaps see whether there is a different medication you can try for that. But we all have tragedies and bad times, and then when the physical pain is there, too, it makes it all the worse. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you were a diabetic, you would need insulin. If it were time for your insulin dose, and your children needed attention immediately, you would have to explain to them that they need to wait for a minute so you can take care of yourself. Your post implies that you have chronic pain--then why should you take a holiday in the first place? Diabetics don't take holidays from their insulin!
Try to take it easy on yourself. Being dependent on pain meds doesn't make you a bad person/dad/husband/friend. Give yourself a holiday from beating yourself up!
And as far as your drug test--if you have a prescription, then it's discriminatory for them not to hire you. Stand up for yourself!
I wish you all the luck in the world. Please treat yourself well--you've got to be your own best friend!
Sheena
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Go easy, step lightly, stay free--J. Strummer
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54321
Stranger
Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 23
Loc: ATLANTA
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Hello Johng,
Sounds like you want a break. I understand the felling of being a "slave" to a bottle. My advice is to taper before your Holiday. That seems to make things better and I believe it will provide a much higher chance of success. You can do this. I will send positive energy your way. PM me if you need someone to talk to. Best wishes.
54321
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1962
Loc: Texas
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John, I am sending you my best wishes and prayers. You can do this, and you'll be happy you did when it's over. Hang tough!! 
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Purple
Enthusiast

Reged: 07/15/03
Posts: 233
Loc: Midwest
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john,
I just want to say, I understand totally what you are saying, I posted a similiar thread a few weeks ago. I suffer from chronic migraines. My PCP & Neuro undertreat me and I had to resort to OP's. I decided to give up the pills and have turned to the Neuro in hope's of getting on something that will help me so I don't have to turn to the narcotic's for relief. At this point, it's not working, I have been suffering for over 2 weeks, long story I have posted here a few times but I am hanging in there. I have had a painful day and have Stadol NS but am using that VERY VERY sparingly at this point. No one wants to be a slave to the narcotics but sometimes you just don't have a choice. Once of the posters before me said it perfectly about diabetic's not having to take holiday's etc. but I know the feelings you are going thru right now, cause I was there a few weeks ago myself. DO NOT beat yourself up because you take the meds, that's what I was doing and it was making the pain worse for me. I came on here to DB & posted & got a lot of support, there are a lot of people who have gone thru this before you will be here to support you. I am one of those people. Please PM me anytime to talk. Take care of yourself first so you can be there for your family, that's what I had to do. You are not a bad person, please do not think you are!!!. 
Purple
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uga81
Enthusiast

Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 223
Loc: North Georgia
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John,
Listen to Sheena. You don't need to get down on yourself. Do you smoke? Well, there are a lot of people that do and I used to. It robs you of life too. But, if you are able to do things you couldn't do without the meds are they really robbing you? No, they are a part of your life. No pain is gain. Small price to pay to be able to pick those kids up in the morning and give em a kiss. Reality is what you make it to be. Yes, the government and ultra rights say that we are addicts. Well, so is that guy who has to take blood thinner every day in order for his heart to keep beating. Is he addicted? Yes, to life. That's what you are, addicted to a pain free life. Get off your own back and carry on.
Yes, a holiday is a good thing and should be taken just to detox from even vitamins. Order some Temesgic from Clickdrugstore.com and some clonidine to keep your blood pressure down. Keep em on hand and you'll get through it fine.
Just remember, you are not an addict. If they could cure your pain tomorrow I'm sure you'd throw the bottle away.
Take care and God Bless
Barney
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"Life is tough. It's tougher if you are stupid." John Wayne
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gottadoit
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/21/03
Posts: 269
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Johng,
I'm sending you a pm.
The advice about the temgesic is a good one, but unfortunately clickdrugstore is out of stock on this right now. Does anyone know of another site that is carrying it?
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zoe11
Journeyman

Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Other side of the moon
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I agree with everyone else. Geeze, if you're in pain, pain meds are like insulin for a diabetic. If you really do want to take a holiday, do taper off. Isn't it dangerous just to quit?
I'm so sorry about all your going through. Remember too that chronic pain make folks feel horrible in more ways than just the pain. It's down right exhausting.
Best of wishes to you.
zoe
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Spinerval
Member

Reged: 04/20/02
Posts: 192
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I've lasted as long as a month without any opiods whatsoever; however, the pain seems to completely and totally steal me away from life. What to do? The pain docs, well, all the docs are running scared, and the ops seem to be troubled. Having done the cold turkey thing before (HELL to the 20th power), I won't go there again.
Right now, I'm shaky, nauseated, achey...you know how it goes...and very dissapointed in the super-rich-controlling powers-that-be who have decided, seemingly, that people in chronic pain should suck it up or die. The solution is an unlikely one: chronic pain patients, like labor unions, like AIDS patients, need to form their own voting lobby...big time and fast. We could do it via internet power, since few of us can actually "march" on Washington. PM me if you're interested. We'd undoubtedly have all the US OPs on our side.
On a lighter note, considering the # of people in pain and the consequential demand, I do have hope for the future.
Spin
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LostShopper
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/10/02
Posts: 205
Loc: Deep South
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John - I suppose I live with an "addict". My husband requires two shots of insulin per day as well as a high blood pressure med and a blood-thinner. He can't go one day without these drugs. So, is he an addict or someone who simply must take drugs on a daily basis in order to maintain life? The latter. As for me, I have been in the delimna that you seem to have been regarding my need of pain meds. I also suffer a chronic illness. Sure, at times I re-think my med use and will do the "holiday" thing but you know what? When I am taking my meds as needed, I am easy to be with. I can laugh with my husband and still frolic together like newleyweds. I care for two elderly ladies on my street who live alone. At work, I can get down to the children's level and help them open new worlds through books, or help them with a school report. I keep my household chores up, and can ALWAYS find time to run an oldster to the store, or cook extra dinner for an ill neighbor. When I try to leave off the meds and just suck it up and use OTC, I feel that I am a shell of myself. I will be literally unable to - on some days - do a simple load of wash.
I have decided to let the worry adn the guilt go. If this is what is required for me to have a happy quality of life, and to continue to do for others, then so be it. I take my pain meds as prescribed, it's once in a million that I will take an extra one at the end of a particularly hard day. You sound like a good person who geniunely cares for your family. You do what you must in order to give those children the quality YOU. Take it from someone who has totally over-analyzed the fact of using - or NOT using - my pain meds. As long as you are under control, do what you must to LIVE. We only get one shot at it, make it worthwhile.
Best wishes to you.
LS
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CeeBee
Member
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 185
Loc: garden state
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John, just had to add you sound so desperate and I know the feeling. I think you should listen to everyone here and first of all if you need the hydro's then why feel bad about it? I think workwise all they can exclude you from is operating heavy machinery. If you are taking more than you need, I can relate to you there. Me too. But I realy think tapering is the way to go, that has effects on you but cold turkey is really too rough and you won't be the father you want to be. Because you will be unable to do anything most likely for awhile. Whatever you decide, best of luck and keep us posted. 
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Anglwink
Veteran

Reged: 04/29/03
Posts: 605
Loc: East coast
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QUOTE: why do you feel bad/guilty for treating it with medication?
Unfortunately, for all of us cp sufferers, we feel bad/guilty because its the way society perceives us, and so although we know better. it makes us feel bad to have to rely on pain meds. I feel that way often also at times...ie: like my son could use some new clothes (although, you would think there closest is a tommmy Hilfiger warehouse). I know that both my sons have what they need & more. I think its just that parents feel guilty like they are taking something away from there familys. But then I stop and use your analogy above..If I had diabetes, would I not take my insulin? Its just a vicious cycle, and we have NO NEED TO FEEL GUILTY! you are in my paryers as is everyone on this board who suffers. We all need to get together and make our voices and feelings heard to the right people (Government). There are so many people here who are so articulate & eloquent in their postings..and some of those people are willing to write a "form" letter. We need to follow their lead and speak out so all this stigma & guilt we feel goes away...boy, I am rambling on! Sorry! love & prayers to you all! Anglwink p.s. you can't get into any trouble or denied a job for a failed drug test if you have a valid script! That is whats called discrimination.
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"Believe"
Edited by Anglwink (11/08/03 08:34 AM)
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Anglwink
Veteran

Reged: 04/29/03
Posts: 605
Loc: East coast
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Hi Purple,
I read you post the other night...I hope that you are feeling a little better and getting some sleep...just want you to know that your in my prayers. Anglwink
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"Believe"
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zoe11
Journeyman

Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Other side of the moon
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I totally agree with what everyone is saying. Like one post above said, they could probably only keep you from heavy machine work. I don't think you can tell how much medicine people are taking from a drug test. I don't know though. I know I passed my drug test and was on a fairly high dose of hydro with a script.
zoe
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junebug101
Journeyman
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 69
Loc: NY
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John, Your post really touched me. I don't know the origins of your pain, but as someone who has also "failed" a few holidays, I understand the frustration. I urge you to read some of the other posts on withdrawing from hydro's. Don't do it too quickly, have alternate pain medication on hand, and plan ahead (ie, a few days off work or do it over a weekend). I'm going to PM you the rest. God bless
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Kid Free and Loving It!
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sheenafur
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 225
Loc: California
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John,
Me again. I think we'd all like to hear from you if you're able to give us an update. I, for one, can't stop thinking about you. Let us know how you're faring, please, even if it's just a sentence or two.
Best wishes,
S.
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Go easy, step lightly, stay free--J. Strummer
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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Thanks to all those kind replies.
I am currently fighting to get my job. the company MD is to call me and go over the failed drug screen (hydrocodon SUPRISE) All my scripts are in order i am not worried too much.
I relized in my life that pain meds are a part of it weather i want to or not. I had a very good job (before my back injury) as a paramedic. the sad thing is mabe I will have to take meds for ever.
I see my back doc on wensday. I have hope that I can accept the pain and move on. I would rather enjoy life than struggle with the pain...
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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sheenafur
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 225
Loc: California
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John,
I'm SO glad you gave us an update. You sound much better. Please keep in mind that it's discriminatory to not hire someone because they're on prescription medication. Wow, you were a paramedic! You guys are the true heroes. Please keep letting us know what's going on. It's a relief to know that you aren't feeling guilty about the pain meds. I know I feel guilty sometimes, too. But when I'm able to be cheerful and active with my kids, I know it's worth it.
Sheena
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Go easy, step lightly, stay free--J. Strummer
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rich74880
Stranger
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Oklahoma
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From my experience, if you declare which pain meds you are on at the time of your drug test and present a statement from your doctor to your employer (not the drug screen rep) merely stating that you are under a doctor's care should hold up under scrutiny. Be sure to keep a copy of that form that shows where you declared your medications because oftentimes, the employer only receives a "pass" or "fail" notice. While some employers will try to use this statement against you, perhaps you could get your doctor to include something along the lines of "my patient needs [the prescribed medication] in order to function pain free in his/her routine day. He is released to work (or some other statement regarding your ability to work while under the medication). Not allowing you to work or discharging you from job because of your medical condition would be tantamount to discrimination of a handicapped person." You or he may chose to use the term "physically challenged" or what ever the PC term is, this week.
Your physician's statement needs to include some keys words like; "discrimination" and "handicapped". While not actually threatening your employer, you are making it known that you know your rights and will defend them, if necessary. This is even more effective if you were hired under the same circumstances; that is, you were already on the medication when they hired you. If it doesn't affect your work, as in falling asleep on the job, there should not be any problems.
Conversely, if this is the first your insurance company has gotten wind of this "condition", they may try to claim that you had a preexisting condition and make you wait 6 months to a year before they will pay for any more refills related to your pain. As for beating yourself up, don't do it. The world of "perfect people" do a fine job of bashing CP sufferers. As the other posts illustrated, you don't see a diabetic going on a "holiday". As long as you are not taking more and more pills, don't worry about it. I know of one person that was taking over 180 mg of Hydro a day who is now down to 37.5 - 45 mg per day and still able to work. She takes a three day holiday each and every month right before her doctor's appointment so he can see her without the medication in her system. (FYI: It is much more difficult for a doctor to write a script for or justify pain meds if you are not in some kind of pain. Doesn't make sense but that's the way the game is played and the doctor has to document what he or she observed.) She also, breaks her tablets in half about a week before she will run out so that she slides into the "holiday" ending up with taking 2 -3 tablets (15 to 22.5 mg of Hydro per day) and takes the over-the-counter Percogesic (325mg APAP and Phenyltoloxamine citrate 30mg).
Promethazine is a fine anti-nausea drug with sedative properties. It's not controlled but you will need a prescription for it. (It is cheap, too.) That along with good ol' Imodium AD and LOTS OF WATER, should help. In fact, I've found out that when my pain meds seem to be less effective, if I'll drink more bottled cold water, what's already "on-board" works better... so much so that I can resist the temptation to take another pain pill.
All the best! - rich74880 -
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"Speak friend and enter"
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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HI All The saga unfolds.
I spoke with the company nurse today. My test that I failed was a 'rapid' test. it showed + for opiates. The interesting thing is it only test morphine and codine (i founfd this out later on) I don't take either. The "final split test" and everone who has taken a drug test understands about the split. the retest at the alb, not the quick test. shows NO OPiates n my urine. I take hydro. so the nurse said my scripts check out drug - so I start working Friday!!!!!!!!!!
I must rember to bend with my knees not my back. I still fret over being DEPENDANT on a drug but that is for another post. I wanted to let everyone know the final outcome of the drug screen. It is funny though part of my job not only providing parmedic Care i will also give random drug screens to the employees.. Go Figure.
Thanks to all for supporting me!!!! 
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Johng-
A cut and paste of another post I made about the same issue:
It depends on the specific test, but hydrocodone and oxycodone can cross-react with many opiate tests.
From many online resources...
"A qualitative urine test for opiates is performed in suspected overdose cases or as part of a drug of abuse program. The test is most sensitive for morphine and codeine but other drugs will cross react in an immunoassay and give positive results (eg, hydrocodone, hydromorphone)."
"An opiate confirmation was performed to a testing limit of 50 ng/mL for total morphine and codeine. In addition, hydrocodone and hydromorphone were qualitatively identified."
"A drug is detected by the screening device, but it wasn't one of the drugs detected in the confirmation analysis. An example of this is the drug hydrocodone which is found in Vicodin. Hydrocodone is a member of the opiate family and a urine sample containing enough hydrocodone will trigger the DTN Home Drug Test to indicate an "inconclusive" result. Unfortunately, the confirmation test is specific only for codeine and morphine. So the urine containing hydrocodone will be resulted by the laboratory as a "negative" sample."
"Cross-Reactivity
A study was conducted using morphine-related compounds to determine the cross-reactivity of the test.
Morphine structurally related compounds showing the lowest concentration of the drug producing a positive response equivalent to the cutoff level:
Description Concentration (ng/ml)
Morphine 300
Codeine 300
Ethyl Morphine 300
Hydromorphine 400
Hydrocodone 750
Oxycodone 1000 "
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Again, it completely depends on the test.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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