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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: MidWest USA
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I saw a thread around here a few days ago where someone was trying to identify some teeny tiny white pills with a C on one side. I believe they were from India and some conversation struck up about the fact that these were codeine sulfate, rather than the more common codeine phosphate. (At least, I think the phosphate is more common. I just checked the 222's we brought back from Canada and they contain the phosphate variety.)
Anyway, the general consensus was that these rarer pills, the codeine sulfate, I think, were more potent. This rattled around in my brain for awhile before I remembered once browsing the site of an Indian or Asian OP and seeing prices for "15 mg codeine" at $1 a pill, which I felt was ludicrous.
Most of the IOPs don't bother adding on that second word at all.I just checked P24, for example, and all their codeine products are listed as pure and simple "codeine." A websearch revealed to me that 30 and 60 mg codeine sulphate tabs, uncompounded, actually ARE available in the US. They are a C-II, as we all know by now. Pure codeine medicine is a C-II.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has received the little tiny white pills with a C on them from the East after ordering codeine and what you experience with them was. Also, if anyone has a leaflet or packing from Codeisan and/or Perduretas, if you could tell us whather these are the phosphates or the sulfates.
I'm mainly just wondering whether it's worth the nail-biting experience of trying out a new IOP and possibly paying more to get the codeine sulfate instead of " phosphate. There are so few few opioid analgesics available over the web, and my prescribed maintenance dose pain-meds is too low a dosage. Plus, the DHC that has been keeping my wife pain-free and perky for the past several months is running completely dry, and anywhere you can find it, the prices are insane.
Any thought or suggestions, links, etc. would be much appreciated.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 354
Loc: great lakes
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I had the very same question. I am luck enough to work in a hospital. I asked a clinical phamiscist. He told me quote "there is no differance between phosphate and sulfate". he said further "the sulfate/ phosphate are only 'salts' to which as far as potency and quality are no differance". to truley understand them and how the body utilizes them(we need to add 'hydochorlide) we need to dive into chemistry which I am not qulifed to to add. the above is what I know for certine because of asking the right person!!
if any one has further please Add
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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TR6
Newbie
Reged: 08/27/02
Posts: 49
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It's a very good question, there are pain medications that come in different forms, in which there are significant differences in potency between the different forms, like propoxyphene. The only difference between these two types of codeine on which I have seen any documentation is in the measurements for the lethal dosages. I found one reference stating that the lethal dosage of the phosphate is equal to only 60 percent of the lethal dosage of the sulphate, which would SEEM to indicate that the phosphate is significantly more potent -- however, this measurement of toxicity may not actually translate to a measurement of potency -- it's just something to consider, it may not actually be relevant.
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: MidWest USA
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Thanks, guys. I guess toxicity levels provides a starting point, although we all know there are quite a few drugs out there for which the maximum effective dose and the LD50 are just a hair apart.
Certainly the poproxyphene napsilate vs. hydrochloride is one of the factors that got my mind churning on this issue, aside from the post I mentioned above, AND the fact that, back when my pain was at a level controllable by anything below C-II, I noticed that Codeisan (I know it's C-II, but let's pretend we are just talking about Codeine) taken in dosages equivalant to the amount I would take of other codeine products seemed less effective. This was fresh, blister-packed Codeisan from a dependable source, so I would hesitate to blame the source.
It's interesting that the chemist queried above seemed to respond only to the "sulphate vs. phosphate" question. It's obvious enough that the drugs in question are altered somehow in connection with the salts or fixatives added to them. Poproxyphene napsilate is 60% as potent as poproxyphene hcl. Hydroxazine pamoate, it would appear from labelling and dispensation, is 200% as potent as hydroxazine hcl, and while they share "on label" indications and are both anti-histamines, the former is pr escribed for anxiety and insomnia, while the latter is prescribed for severe histaminic reactions. The PDR does not make a big deal out of the hydrox differences, for some reason, but the Darvocet vs Darvon is clearly spelled out. However, both forms of codeine appear willy nilly in US FDA-approved medications, it seems. Shouldn't we know more about this? General consensus says the LD50 for "codeine" is 500mg. Which codeine is it?!
Damnit, I know there's a major chemistry guy on this board, why OH why can I not remember his name?! Well, here's a bump and a hope that maybe someone knows something else. . . Maybe those "wonderful" 15mg Indian codeine pills were something else entirely. . .
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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