actonbell
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma
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I have a nephew with insomnia. While in the hospital he was given ambien, but discharged without a prescription, the doctor flat refused his request. I know ambien can be bought cheaply (and that is the deal here, cheap) overseas, but I really don't want and neither does he, to chance buying a controlled med. My question is, what is non controlled that might be a good sleep medication for him? Would soma help? Or some of the other muscle relaxers? He can't take benadryl, it wires him and makes him feel terrible so I pretty much think antihistimines are out of the question.
And he was in the hospital for emontional problems, not health. He was discharged with Inderal and xyprexia. One of the main things he has always contended with was insomnia, even as a child. He says that without sleep or with only a few hours of interrupted sleep he has problems, even with these new meds, controlling anger and depression.
And thank god for insurance. Xyprexia for 30 pills cost 800 bucks. His copay is only 15. But I found this same drug on 2 iop's for 60+cents per pill. Talk about a f*&%ing rip off!
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All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground....and miss.
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plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
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Since it has never been marketed in the US, Imovane (generic is zopiclone), is not technically a controlled substance in the US. It is almost equivalent to ambien IMO. Many of the Euopean IOP's offer zopiclone at about $1/7.5mg pill and it is available by Rx in Canada.
Still love those Morning Glories and think about their seeds!
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"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
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actonbell
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma
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  I think you are incorrigible. Which is okay by me, because I think I am too. Thanks for the information. I will tell him about this drug and see what he thinks. Another question about ambien, how fast does a tolerance develop and how addictive? Should he take other meds instead every month or so? I am looking for some regimen that will be fairly long lasting, because this is going to be a lifetime problem.
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All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground....and miss.
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plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 277
Loc: California
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Among the few docs that I've talked to, they prefer ambien to benzo sleeping pills, because the "patient is less likely to develop tolerance and dependence." However, I think the jury is still out on this issue. Ambien is still under patent and advertizes on TV. All the benzos are off patent and generic. Many doc's like to Rx the pills that get them percs from the drug sales guys.
Additionally, atleast at my local university, ambien has become the rage, because if you fight the sleep it becomes moderately halucinogenic. I've not heard of that effect from benzo sleeping pills, which I take. I'm not sure if ambien and benzo's are cross-tolerant. If not, then he might be able to alternate monthly to minimize risk.
One other option, which I hate, but some swear by, is trazadone. It was originally developed as an anti-depressant, which seemed to work mostly because it was so sedating that you couldn't feel depressed. If you complain of insomnia most of the docs in my area will first try to give you a low to moderate dose at night only - rather than 3X day as AD. they'll probably start at 50mg and go to 100mg or even 150mg. I've known many people taking this successfully to help with the insomnia of SSRI's. It would put me to sleep OK at 100mg, but I often awoke in 2-3 hours from nightmares in a panic attack. That never happens with a benzo sleeping pill. Common wisdom is that trazodone is does not build a tolerance and is non-addicting. For males it can infrequently cause priapism - which I'm told is no fun.
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"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
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phinny
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/09/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Canada
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Hello to all - it's been a long time since I've written.
I have been taking imovane for about two years under the direction of a doctor. I take it every night with calcium/magnesium supplements. At first, 1/2 a pill would give me about 5 - 6 hrs sleep. Several months later, I had to do a full pill to get the same result. I am now taking two pills per night, and I'm awake for most of the night. Used to love it - didn't even mind the taste, now it's almost a waste of time. My doc refuses to give me benzos because I am dealing with chronic insomnia, and benzos for chronic insomnia is not recommended - most of you know the pitfalls of long term benzo use. Then again, if you read the product info on imovane, they say it should be used for short term treatment of insomnia. There is a tolerance issue with this med.
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Sherman, set the way-back machine to 1970.
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Box_of_Rain
Banned=more than one account
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Wow, what a pain the the arse, I wonder why they won't jsut prescribe it?! Jeeez, just today in fact I called my doctor asking for Ambien (first time I've ever asked this doctor) and they didn't bat an eye at it, it's waiting at the pharmacy as we speak.
I wonder why it's such a big deal. I know it can be "habit forming" [rolls eyes] but geeeez!
Has anyone looked into Herbal rememdies for this? I am not very well informed with regard to that, but I know google could throw a ton of info your way if you are interested.
Another thought is Elavil (Amitriptyline)? in low doses it helps with sleep quite a bit. I take 25mg at bedtime and normally it helps (I am having sleep problems because of a stinking hydro holiday) which is why I needed the ambien (of course my doc has no idea why I need it) Normally that Elavil helps a lot, and for the whole night.
If someone refused him Ambien, they will probably refuse a benzo.
I'd have him or someone on his behalf call his doctor and ask what THEY are going to do to help him sleep. It's not appropriate for them to throw their hands in the air, especially over somethign like this. It's not frigging heroin for pete's sake, it's a sleeping pill!
Good luck!
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: MidWest USA
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Hi there! I would highly suggest that you do a search on this topic, setting the time back to "all posts." There have been many, many long and informative posts on this topic.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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actonbell
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma
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Thanks guys, my nephew and I will place orders tomorrow. He thinks he will try the soma and elavil first, save the zopiclone for the really bad bouts.
I don't know why the doctor refused to give him a prescription for ambien. He tolerated it well and he got it every night that he was in the hospital. For 3 weeks. Maybe because it does develop tolerance fast or addiction or something.
Anyway, with your gracious help we at least have a plan.
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All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground....and miss.
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