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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I am thinking of switching from methadone to buprenorphin. I am wondering if anyone knows if this drug has the same accumulative effects that methadone does. I am striving to get completely off the methadone and switch to a different pain med. The problem is, while I'm on methadone, opiate breakthru pain meds simply don't do much good, and my blood pressure is getting higher and higher from the titration down from methadone. I have reached a dosage "plateau" at which I am stable blood pressure-wise, but I REALLY hate methadone and want off completely. Blood pressure meds are too depressing and haven't really controlled it. Just for info, my B/P went up to 198/130 at my last dose drop. It took a whole week on a higher methadone dose to reach a "stable" 166/102. I DO NOT HAVE BLOOD PRESSURE ISSUES AT ANY OTHER TIME! My B/P crises are methadone withdrawal-induced. In addition, the withdrawal-induced arthralgia is SEVERE. Soooo....any experience, medical info would be greatly appreciated.
My goal, by the way, with Bup would be to use it as a substitute for methadone until such time as the withdrawal could be completed and get switched to MSContin or OxyContin.
Thanks in advance.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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schirall
Stranger
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 12
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hey nightshade.
night and day.
methadone is more addictive than anything and will take 6 weeks to get off!
buph is a miracle,you don't get the effect of methadone it just makes you feel "normal",but after five days you can just quit,no problem and you're cured!physically that is.
that's for detox.
for pain,methadone's better,but beware!
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k8kat
Stranger
Reged: 10/02/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
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You can ONLY start taking BUP when your methadone dose is 30mgs or less. Then you are started on Bup and I am not certain how long you remain on it, but it's certainly longer than only days. It actually is used as a substitute for methadone. A lot of methadone Pts. prefer Bup to meth. In Canada, we cannot get Bup. I am on methadone, have researched it for 5 yrs and KNOW what I am talking about.
Also, as for your BP. There is a BP med called Clonidine (I believe it is called Catapres in the US) it is used for opiate withdrawal, specifically. I have used it, and I still am. It takes away a lot of the W/D symtoms too.
Try it, it's not your average BP med. It's different, and meant for your condition .(W/D from meth)
Good Luck, I know how Best if kept off the board hard coming off of meth is. I was up to 620 mgs last year, so this past Feb. I stopped one day COLD TURKEY. I lasted 12 weeks before I went back onto it. I am staying at a much lower dose, but still a dose that is stable for me.
So, I have been there and back. PM me if you want to. I'll be more than happy to help you in any way that I can or just for some support!!
Sincerely,
k8kat 
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satchmo
Stranger
Reged: 09/27/03
Posts: 17
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Well....Im not sure I fully understand what you are doing so I'll ask...are you trying to get off methadone and then plan on using Oxycontin or something similar for pain?
If so, how often do you think you will be using OCs or other pain meds after you get off the methadone?
Anyway...I can tell you from experience that buprenex/buprenorphine really doesnt do too much for many people for pain.
It may help you get off methadone, but then you'll probably get stuck on bupe.
I find it hard to believe docs are still so quick to assume that people can get off heroin or methadone (or any other opiates) by using buprenex for a 3-6 weeks, then simply stop taking bupe. You are still going to suffer WD when coming off bupe, too. I know.
I've used bupe for 8 months straight (at least)...as well as shorter time periods here and there. Sure, you can stop taking other opiates and feel fine on bupe, but just wait until you stop taking the bupe. Bang. Withdrawls symptoms.
If bupe wasnt so much $$$, I'd say it's a great maintainence drug. But in the US, the average price per amp (not sure of tabs) was like $3.50 to $6 each (plus script/Doc costs, etc)
Anyway, you can function fine on bupe w/ no real WD...but I would never even bother to consider it for pain usage as some people do.
But, I am not really sure what your goal is, so I can only tell you what I know.
Also, I've used clonidine for various reasons...and it can help a bit in opiate WD...it really only helps take the edge off the 'sweats' and may help you sleep a LITTLE bit...it doesnt really help that much, though, but for some people, any help is a huge plus. So I can understand. If it's cheap and you have time to dig some up, try it. But you cant use it with certain other drgs (SSRIs, I think, among others)
Clonidine can actually help take the edge off migraines, too.
Anyway....I am not sure if I helped at all, but I figured I'd give it a shot.
-satchmo
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Hi-
For the record, I'm at the end-stage of my methadone detox. I take 4mgs daily dose and my max dose was 100mgs 2 years ago. The detox wasn't too bad until I started dropping from 5mgs. I started dropping 1mg every 2 weeks, but got REALLY sick. EXTREME bone pain and stroke-level blood pressure were the biggest complaints physically. I never sweat in withdrawal (just me, as I know many others say they do) but I get hot/cold flashes, stomach upset (in all its lovely forms), malaise and CRAVINGS. The methadone detox is by far worse than I ever had when I came off MSContin 300mgs/day--and I did that on a fast taper (maybe 1 month or two at most.) The problem is, oxycodone does not keep the methadone withdrawal at bay--it helps a bit for a couple hours, then BAM! Almost seems as if it makes the w/d worse. So, the goal is get off methadone completely, go a week or two without ANYTHING narcotic to evaluate then go to OC or MSContin. I'm actually leaning toward MSContin as I feel more functional on it. Then oxycodone for breakthrough pain.
I am on such a small dose of methadone right now that it feels as if I am taking NOTHING at all. No pain relief, no typical opiate side effects. It just seems that I'm getting stuck on this dose of methadone because the withdrawal gets too severe. It took 14 days to get to a tolerable state when I dropped to 4.5mgs. I simply need to be able to function, go to work, etc. and don't have the luxury of waiting 2 weeks or more on each .5mg dose drop to feel OK enough to get out of bed! I had hoped the buprenorhine would lessen the w/d, speed up the process, so I can get on my life.
I definitely do not want Bup for pain or maintenance. Just long enough to kick methadone and suffer as little as possible. Those dang cravings are new and make me think of things I shouldn't!
So...if this helps, please let me know what you think.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1962
Loc: Texas
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I'm sorry I have no helpful information to offer you - just wanted to say I sure hope you get to feeling better soon and we're all pulling for you! Hang tough!!
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satchmo
Stranger
Reged: 09/27/03
Posts: 17
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OK, I see what you are saying now....yeah...you may be right, using bupe may be a decent step in getting past your methadone usage....sounds like you really narrowed down your daily dose to about as light as you can get it w/out WD 100%....maybe bupe would allow you to get off it all the way for a few weeks.
At that low a daily dose of methadone, you should be able to jump right on bupe, no prob....hopefully it will ease the pain of the full blown methadone WD. I am pretty sure bupe WD couldnt be any worse than what you felt trying to come off the methadone all the way....at the very least you would probably feel some improvement.
I sure hope that if you give it a shot that it works...or that whatever you try works for you. Good luck with it!
-satchmo
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