bango
Member
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 187
Loc: midwest
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speaking of cyclo, anyone here used it? how does it compare to secobarbital, or is it closer to pheno? thanks
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Chara
Stranger
Reged: 09/15/03
Posts: 15
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Someone wanted to know about comparisons...
Well, I guess I could say Phenobarbital is to Cyclobarbital what Codeine is to Morphine. You're talking about two entirely different barbiturates. One is a very long-acting barbiturate and is often used to treat seizures and withdrawal etc. Contrast this with Cyclobarbital, a really short-acting barbiturate used entirely as a hypnotic.
Cyclobarbital is as strong as Secobarbital and slightly less toxic, but it eliminates quickly and leaves no nasty hangover FX.
By the way, just a warning to those who might abuse this med, take one packet and it will kill you. One packet is equivalent to 2 grams of Cyclobarbital calcium. I know of a person who took 9 tablets and was found dead by his spouse the next day. Each packet contains 10 tablets. If 9 tablets can kill a 230lb 6' guy I'm pretty sure 10 would do most of us in.
Cheers,
Chara
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zoo7688
Stranger
Reged: 11/04/02
Posts: 5
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Sorry, but your theory isn't true. I took 10 full grams of cyclobarbital and survived; I was actually trying to die. I know of 4 others who took even greater doses than I, and they survived as well, some without any medical intervention.
I suppose it is possible to die with a gram or so, but it isn't very likely. Some rare people die with 4 grams of phenobarbital as well, but 25+ grams is better.
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 320
Loc: Midwest
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I am glad you didn't succeed. I hope you are, too. 
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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Chara
Stranger
Reged: 09/15/03
Posts: 15
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I admit a serious mistake in my medical textbook.
Granted, Cyclobarbital is not a very toxic barbiturate compared to say Seconal or Nembutal. Even Amytal would be significantly more toxic than Cyclobarbital when it comes to serious overdoses (10 grams +/-).
Cyclobarbital is still lethal in overdose, when put against Seconal and Nembutal or Amytal which are extremely lethal. Cyclobarbital is about 30% more toxic than Phenobarbital.
Here is a sample of a toxicity scale that I obtained from a chart. All those barbiturates under 0.15 are moderately lethal and any of the barbiturates above that toxicity level are considered extremely lethal.
Scale comparison to 0.30
Pentobarbitone 0.30 Nembutal
Quinalbarbitone 0.26 Seconal
Amylobarbitone 0.20 Amytal
Secbutobarbitone 0.17 Butisol
Cyclobarbitone 0.13 Hexadorm-Calcium
Phenobarbitone 0.10 Luminal
The one single reason phenobarbitone is less toxic than the other barbiturates, is due to it's lower lipid-soluble ratio, and it tends to further suppress certain neurotransmitters more so than say Seconal, Nembutal and Amytal which is why it's used as an anti-convulsant in sub-sedative/hypnotic doses as well as a classic sedative-hypnotic.
Seconal, Nembutal and Amytal (and even Butisol) tend to accumulate and saturate in both the bloodstream and central nervous system which is what makes them very deadly in an overdose. The reason for this accumulation is their relatively lower protein-binding ratios, compare this with Cyclobarbital which has relatively very high protein bind ratio. Granted, if it is possible for Cyclobarbital to reach highly toxic levels it will probably be fatal, but Cyclobarbital tends to eliminate faster than it accumulates which accounts for it's being less likely to reach highly lethal levels.
Granted this, for self-deliverance, 10 grams of either Phenobarbital or Cyclobarbital can be very effective in combination with alcohol and the careful use of a fairly large plastic bag for when the barbiturate renders you unconscious. 10 grams of either drug ingested WILL knock you out COLD and that is a fact. Cyclobarbital will do pretty much the same as Phenobarbital, only at a faster rate (and that is why it's used as a hypnotic sleep-aid).
ADULT BARBITURATE DOSAGES
Anticonvulsive doses:
All short-acting barbiturates
All intermediate-acting barbiturates
Long-acting barbiturates 15 - 50mg
Sedative doses
All short-acting 30 - 75mg
All intermediate-acting 50 - 75mg
Long-acting 60 - 100mg
Hypnotic doses
Quinalbarbitone 100-200mg
Pentobarbitone 100-200mg
Amylobarbitone 100-250mg
Cyclobarbitone 200-400mg
The information I provided is for education purposes and I do not openly condone suicide.
Also, I do not think barbiturates are considered the best of sleep-aids as there are substitutes, which have much higher therapeutic indexes and are just as effective as barbiturates, that are easily available (many of which I'm unfortunately contraindicated for). I personally do not wish to die via a barb O/D because it will probably be due to the contents of my stomach ending up in my lungs and not the knock-out and respiratory-cardiac arrest that is usually anticipated with a barb O/D. Choking to death on your own vomit is not a nice way to die rest assured!
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Chara
Stranger
Reged: 09/15/03
Posts: 15
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So, Zoo7688, what were the effects of the barbiturates (Cyclobarbital) on these people? Did it knock them out cold? Did they vomit? Did they keep the drug down? Did they take alcohol beforehand or after consuming the barbiturate? Use plastic bags? I hear plastic bags usually seal the deal where the barbiturate would have failed because the person is seriously knocked out and cannot physically remove the bag.
You said YOU and FOUR other people took 10 gram +/- of this barbiturate and survived. Now that to me sounds rather wierd. Now, I'm not accusing anyone, but there is a fairly modest possibility that maybe it wasn't actually real Cyclobarbital but maybe some faked pills? Of course you'd survive sugar pills, maybe they were just re-made generic benzodiazepines which were faked to fool people into thinking they were the real thing when they might have been something entirely else. You don't know what this drug was, it could have been anything.
Also, what would almost immediately kill one person could take a whole day to kill another, for example Seconal or Nembutal. That's what barbiturates are like, they can be real b*stards when you intend to actually die. They are notorious for their differing O/D factors in different people. What could kill a 110lb woman may not even *knock out* a 220lb man and that's no bullsh*t. That's barbiturates for you, and unless it's either Nembutal or Seconal there are no guarantees of dying via a massive O/D especially ORAL O/D.
Injection O/D...well well well, another story altogether. Right into your bloodstream and right into your CNS. Injecting even a third of the typical oral lethal dose would almost immediately paralyze the respiratory centers of the brain and result in a fatal outcome.
CHB
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gage
Member
Reged: 11/27/02
Posts: 138
Loc: south central U.S.A.
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WOW, I FEEL LIKE IM IN MED SCHOOL WITH YOUALL, SORRY IM SURE OFF TOPIC BUT YOU PEOPLE ARE SMART!!!!! THATS A COMPLIMENT!!!JUST HAD TO SAY IT!!  GAGE
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zoo7688
Stranger
Reged: 11/04/02
Posts: 5
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Well, I woke up several days later in ICU. I used vodka and a large dose of benzos as well. As most people who go so far as to obtain a good barb would not want to vomit them up, I assume the others like myself used anti-emetics beforehand. I do not recall anyone mentioning vomiting; I did, however, have a significant amount of saliva in my lungs. One person I spoke to mentioned that he used a bag, but at some point he must have ripped it off as it was found around his shoulders. People have been known to do that unknowingly in some cases.
I am certain that the Cyclobarbital I received was of high quality and the real deal; the hospital also confirmed the presence of the drug. The doctor told me that if I had not been discovered for several days, it is very likely that I would have died from asphyxiation or possibly from respiratory failure; he said that even with the fast acting barbiturates, some people will simply last several days before expiring.
I was completely out; the nurses apparently pricked my feet and beneath my fingernails with needles to get a response from me and were unable to do so for several days. My breathing just never stopped.
Btw, even if I had asphyxiated on vomit or saliva, I don't think it would have been unpleasant; like suffocating from the bag, if you are completely knocked out, you shouldn't feel a thing.
In response to:
So, Zoo7688, what were the effects of the barbiturates (Cyclobarbital) on these people? Did it knock them out cold? Did they vomit? Did they keep the drug down? Did they take alcohol beforehand or after consuming the barbiturate? Use plastic bags? I hear plastic bags usually seal the deal where the barbiturate would have failed because the person is seriously knocked out and cannot physically remove the bag
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bromo
Member
Reged: 05/03/03
Posts: 127
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Your posts sadden me deeply zoo7688. I hope you've found happiness in your life again.
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