toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: MidWest USA
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Quote:
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Contugesic retard 60mg (60) Euro 38,70
DHC 60 mg Mundipharma®) Retardtabs
1 Retardtab. cont.: Dihydrocodeinhydrogentartrat 60 mg (equ. 40 mg Dihydrocodeinbase
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What does that last "equ. 40 mg Dihydrocodeinbase" mean? Does that reflect 40mg released initially, or is it like propoxyphene DHc vs propoxyphene napsilate, which has a 1:.6 analgesic dose (aka, 100 mg Darvon N is equal to 60mg Dhc Hcl)?
I thought there used to be immediate release DHC in pill form available through P24, but they have added and subtracted, divided and multiplied in many ways since I first became acquainted with them.
I'm just trying to get a fair assessment of the bioavailability of the DHC in contugesic vs. the that in other DHC formulations out there. Obviously shipping large bottles of syrup across the ocean is not a good option, but out of all the lovely and variegated members of the opiate family, my beloved only finds relief in DHC. There is almost no DHC available here in the US, for reasons unknown. Thus, my usual reference for meds (PDR) is useless in fingering the potency of this particular product in comparison with its syrup or IR competitors. Everyone seems to be running short on Contugesic right now and the laws of Supply and Demand are pushing prices towards a very unsettling financial edge.
. . .Just in case there was ever a question. . .Yes, a few mg *do* count. We are counting them pretty closely.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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padmakara
Member
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Chiang Mai
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That base is the same as the difference between cocaine and crack. See, white powder coke is really cocaine hydrochloride, a water soluble form of cocaine with an ion attached, or know as the salt form. The hydrochloride adds weight to the cocaine molecule, so they're speaking of molecule for molecule, 60mg of the salt form of DHC has the same molecule number as 40mg of the free base form of DHC. Another example would be that 100mg of propoxyphene napsylate is equivalent to 65mg of propoxyphene hydrochloride because the napsylate ion weighs so much more than the hydrochloride ion. Also, the salt form affects the bioactivity. You can't smoke a salt form of a drug because the vaporization temperature is too high, close to the combustion point. You can smoke the free base form cause it'll boil at a lower temp. Can't inject freebases though. Well... a lot more could be said... but I'll leave it there for now.
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: MidWest USA
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Quote:
Another example would be that 100mg of propoxyphene napsylate is equivalent to 65mg of propoxyphene hydrochloride because the napsylate ion weighs so much more than the hydrochloride ion
Thanks for confirming this.
No crack for me, thanks.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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prudence
Stranger
Reged: 08/23/03
Posts: 17
Loc: Florida
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This is the first time I've posted. Please let me know if I've violated any protocols.
Padmakara's discussion of what it means when they refer to the base for a drug's potency makes sense. Let me know what you all think, but my take is in the USA, when they list a drug's potency as 10mg, they are not referring to the base.
Years ago my pharmacist friend gave me one of his old college textbooks The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. It lists Dihydrocodeine as being between Codeine and Morphine in potency. It looks to be roughly equivalent to Hydrocodone in all properties. They have the doses of all the most common opioids given subcutaneously that produce the same analgesic effects as 10mg Morphine administered subcutaneously. So Morphine is the standard baseline from which all the others are compared. The dose listed for Dihydrocodeine is 60mg. For comparison, the dose for Oxycodone is 10-15mg and Codeine is 120mg. I don't know how
Quote:
same analgesic effects
translates into euphoria. Consider that fact that Aspirin is supposed to have strong analgesic effects. Also, the comparison is complicated by the fact that some opioids are more effective orally.
The withdrawal symptoms are listed as being between Morphine and Codeine, the same as what's listed for Hydrocodone. They list Oxycodone withdrawal symptoms as close to Morphine. Since everything else in this book matches my personal experience, I have no reason to doubt this assessment of Dihydrocodeine. It is a little dated (1980).
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padmakara
Member
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Chiang Mai
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You know, I'm not sure if they use different salt forms to change it from IR to sustained release with any drug. With oxy, all available forms are the hydrochloride, they use other methods to make it a slow release. Some drugs, like propoxyphene, are available in a number of salt forms. Most aren't. A single salt form fills the various requirements of stability and bioavailability. Apparently, dihydrocodeine is available as the hydrochloride, phosphate, and the tartrate salt. Contugesic is the tartrate. I don't have any information regarding which medications are the other salt forms and what the bioactivity differences are... although I'm interested if anyone else does. Hope that's a start 
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intrepid1
Member
Reged: 01/24/03
Posts: 177
Loc: West Coast
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Toe,
Have you considered Tosidrin instead of Paracodina? Much less bulky.
intrepid
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No time for procrastination, but I'll get around to it eventually.
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