redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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I was wondering if Lomotil performs in the same way that Immodium does, since it's considered a mild opiate? I want to do a Hydro holiday, since I am now receiving proper help, and want to make sure I can comply with my PM. It means I will also try not to take my oxy (from my pain doc) for 5 days, in spite of the pain. I just really want to know if I can do this. It's going to be hard, and I have no spine as it is (I mean mentally in this case LOL)
So the question, again, can I use Lomotil to ward off possible W/Ds and cravings, or is Imodium really the way to go? FYI Lomotil is diphenoxylate/atropine, and Imodium is Loperamide.
Thanks!
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 461
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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I've no clue, red, but I wish you the very best and a pain free (as possible) w/d. I just today finished a 2 week holiday from hydro and the first week was the worst! Though, I went cold turkey- gave my pills to my sis for safe keeping with explicit instructions not to give them to me until AT LEAST today even if I come crawling, begging, crying, vomiting in pain to her. And, she did just that. The first 2 days the pain was so severe all I wanted to do was lay down and even then, I wanted to vomit- not to mention the headaces and nausea for the rest of the week. It's not fun, but after that first week, I finally felt 'normal' and my pain felt 'normal' unlike it had since I started taking it. Good luck 
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Sounds like a fun party for all.. 
Seriously though I am impressed that you did it. As you may have guessed I bridged the time until I found a pain doc using OP's, and am now concerned about the Hydro in my system.
Your story, and others I have read, lead me to believe that for some reason Hydro must be a lot harder to quit than Oxy, even though it's a weaker opioid.
One basis for this is that, last year, at one point I was in MS-C, 80 mg Oxy a day and a patch. Not much compared to some, but you'd think the W/D would be hard. Funny enough I was right as rain in two days. W/D wise, that is...
BTW I'd be curious to know if you feel you can get by with a lower dose after two weeks' Holiday, i.e. do you think you've brought down your tolerance any?
Cheers,
~r
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Sorry to have wasted time with that question, I found the answer right here using the search funtion - duh! It's yes btw..
red
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 461
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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I haven't taken the hydro yet, Red, but I'll be sure to let you know if my tolerance has gone down any. I started taking 3 5/500 hydro/apap or 1 1/2 10/650 (per dose). In any event, after time, I was taking it nearly every day and eventually was up to 2 1/2 10/650 to feel the same effects. It was when I took 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 (can't remember which) of the 5/500 that I realized I was HOOKED and that I'd gotten quite a little tolerance that I was in no place to have! Financially or physically/mentally- so that's when I gave them to my sis and said KEEP THEM AWAY!!! Lol. I'll definitely post to let you know if I'm back to what I was before or not- I asked my sis only to give me 3 10/650 because I don't want it in front of me all the time- don't want the same easy access to a tolerance/dependence as I had gotten and this way, I have enough to get me through 2 bouts of severe pain over the weekend.
As for the Oxy- I don't know how long you were on it or if you'd gotten a tolerance or dependence- that, I think, is when it's the worst. As for me, when I was only taking 3 5/500 7 times a month, I didn't have a tolerance and therefore, no w/d. It's when you start taking it every day and have to take more and more that you get hooked and then w/d. Hopefully your holiday is as much a breeze for you as it was with oxy
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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Beetlenut
Threadhead
Reged: 09/09/02
Posts: 764
Loc: Colorado
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I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!! And this post is NOT directed at you, Red, it's just a post on the general subject of "Immodium for withdrawal symptoms from Hydro."
I'd like to straighten this out once for all!!! Immodium does NOTHING for withdrawals because IT DOES NOT CROSS THE BLOOD-BRAIN BARRIER!!! Really, people, do you think if it had any analgesic effect it would be sold over the counter?!!
Now on the other hand, Lomotil, which IS a prescribed substance DOES help withdrawal BECAUSE IT CONTAINS A MILD MAN-MADE NARCOTIC!!
I actually read in another post about some board member taking a HUGE amount of Immodium (like 30 of them!!!) and claiming they helped his withdrawal symptoms. Well good for him because he demonstrated quite nicely the PLACEBO EFFECT!!!
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 461
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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Beetle,
Personally, I'm with you on the 'placebo effect'. However, if people get the needed effect, psychosomatic or not, isn't that worth it? Though, much like you, I was shocked at the 30 pills or more to get through their w/d, if it's not physically causing any harm and they believe it's helping them to more easily get through the withdrawal, isn't the 'whatever works' theory a good one to go by? I'm NOT criticizing your analysis and I do hope you don't take it that way, but I certainly think that, knowing how difficult the w/d's are, whatever it takes to get through it for each individual is certainly worth it if no harm is done. Now, on the other side of the fence, I have NO clue what damage is/could potentially be caused by taking that much of the immodium- that, I'd prolly check with a Dr. about
Best of luck to all that w/d from anything cuz IT SUCKS! Lol.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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scissorhands
Member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Hell
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I know in my case if I took 30 caplets of immodium at one time, w/d's would be the least of my worries. Sh*t wouldn't fly for weeks to come...
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Baseball is wrong...Man with four balls cannot walk!
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 461
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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Red,
I said I would so here it is- the final report on my 2 week sabbatical from hydro:
1 1/2 10/650's- back to normal I think I'm going to stick with not allowing myself more than 3 pills and only on the weekends (with the exception of unexpected severe, crippling pain days) and nothing during the week! Hopefully I won't find myself back to that icky place I was just 2 weeks ago nearly doubling my dose and having to do so every day, several times a day YES!!! The hiatus was WELL worth what I had to endure for that 1st week to get back to where I was before getting to the point I needed it And my best wishes for as comfortable a w/d as you can get
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Greycie, thanks very much for posting that follow up. I am glad it's worth it. For the sake of our own bodies, for the sake of our minds (are we addicted or not?), and for the sake of being able to get more pain relief out of more medication..
Well done on the two weeks! 
~r
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junebug101
Journeyman
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 69
Loc: NY
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Just an aside, I've found that vitamin B6 in the mornings helps with some of the fatigue associated w/ a holiday. Good luck and hang in! 
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Kid Free and Loving It!
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oreo
Journeyman
Reged: 05/17/03
Posts: 62
Loc: North-lived South but prefer t...
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Just an FYI-all the "Bs" are good! Check out a blend with B12....seems to give a little "boost of energy" too...(don't take cal/mag-it will make you tired!!! I've done that and a nurse I know told me to take that at night to help with sleep!)
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 924
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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I imagine the effect of the Immodium that is most desirable is the reduction of stomach cramping and infinite trips to the restroom. I have suffered from just awful colitis from time to time and I knew what was causing my agony--my colon!
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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Folksong
Member
Reged: 07/11/03
Posts: 128
Loc: Texas
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Red,
Lomotil definitely helps. I take Lomotil a lot because of severe "bowel probs", and when I have a bad couple of weeks and have to take hydro on a regular, daily basis, the Lomotil is very helpful when I stop/cut down, I've never had w/d symptoms from the hydro. Just don't take too many Lomotil at once because of the atropine. It is kinda a two-fer, helps with the diarrhea that can accompany hydro cessation as well as the opiate craving!! The atropine can make ya a little shaky, but a small amt. of a benzo can help that.(but not everyone has the shakiness) Hope this helps a litle. Good luck!
Folksong
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Folksong
Member
Reged: 07/11/03
Posts: 128
Loc: Texas
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Oops, I forgot to mention that I taper/cut down the hydo dosage first...
Folksong
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phlebomom
Stranger
Reged: 09/15/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Ohio
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Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there was something I could do for the severe uncomfortable, restless feeling especially in my legs that seems to be going along with going off the hydro? I have tapered off since last Saturday and have only used darvocet and much less ( I was using up to 8 norco's a day, and went down to 2 darvocets a day). Now I am completely off of all narcotics and am worried that the symptoms will worsen. Anyone have any advice? I don't have any lomotril like was mentioned. Is it hard to get? I really don't want to ask for a perscription if I don't have to given my current situation, but I guess if the withdrawal gets real bad then I will do what I have to. The pain alone is beginning to make me very sick! It is very severe and I have already taken 4 motrin and nothing is helping. I am just so frustrated, but I have got to get off of this stuff! Any advice would be appreciated. God bless.
Donna 
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arik
Newbie
Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 38
Loc: Washington, DC
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You can do it. Your worst enemy is boredom because you'll just think about the drugs. Go do something. Watch some movie that will make you forget it. I know I sound like I'm preaching -- but believe me, I've been there. When a certain IOP didn't bother to ship an order, I took a totally "unplanned hydro holiday." And after about the fifth day (cold turkey) things started to get better. After a few weeks, I was actually relieved that the IOP ripped me off!! Yes, I have alot of pain, but I'm more careful now and use hydro only for the most severe times. I NEVER allow myself to take it more than three days in a row because I never want to go through WD again.
But you will be okay. It will pass.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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The reason Immodium gets recommended for withdrawals is because it helps with diarrhea and and the other gastrointestinal symptoms. Of course it will not help the mental side of things. There are opiate receptors all over your body, the GI system happens to have a massive amount of them. So stock up on Immodium to help with this side effect, but don't expect it to cure any other aspect.
As for Lomotil, it crosses the BBB in very small amounts, but if you take enough, it will be very beneficial for withdrawal. But if you take enough to ward off withdrawal, you won't be making a bowel movement for a looooong time.
Good luck.
-yawkaw
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Beetlenut
Threadhead
Reged: 09/09/02
Posts: 764
Loc: Colorado
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Hi Folksong:
Yes, I agree entirely with your post.
I was once told by a drug rep. that the reason they put the atropine in the lomotil is to decrease the potential for abuse.
I have had great results ordering Lomotil from mastersmarketing.com. It comes in the original blisterpack and is VERY inexpensive.
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gummy
Stranger
Reged: 09/06/03
Posts: 8
Loc: California
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Hi Beetle -
I went to that site & didn't find Lomotil - Is it listed under another name?
Thanks, Gummy
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lovepink
Goddess
Reged: 01/01/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: NYC Metro Area
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Yes, all meds at MM are listed by their generic name - Lomotil is diphenoxylate/atropine.
Hope that helps.
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Lovepink
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