carlygh
Member
Reged: 07/10/03
Posts: 117
Loc: East Coast
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This Florida law was just passed 5 days ago. I don't know when it goes into effect but get em while you can cause it looks like it's over guys! Probably explains BuyMeds and Erxonline situation and the others are sure to follow. This makes even the records required OPs very problematic now too.
Looks like IOPs will be the way of the future for most and street sources for others. If you're lucky you might find a kind local doctor. Good luck!
64B8-9.014 Standards for Telemedicine Prescribing Practice.
(1)Prescribing medications based solely on an electronic medical questionnaire constitutes the failure to practice medicine with that level of care,skill,and treatment which is recognized by reasonably prudent physicians as being acceptable under similar conditions and circumstances,as well as prescribing legend drugs other than in the course of a physician s professional practice.
(2)Physicians and physician assistants shall not provide treatment recommendations, including issuing a prescription,via electronic or other means,unless the following elements have been met:
(a)A documented patient evaluation,including history and physical examination to establish the diagnosis for which any legend drug is prescribed.
(b)Discussion between the physician or the physician assistant and the patient regarding treatment options and the risks and benefits of treatment.
(c)Maintenance of contemporaneous medical records meeting the requirements of Rule 64B8-9.003,F.A.C.
(3)The provisions of this rule are not applicable in an emergency situation. For purposes of this rule an emergency situation means those situations in which the prescribing physician or physician assistant determines that the immediate administration of the medication is necessary for the proper treatment of the patient,and that it is not reasonably possible for the prescribing physician or physician assistant to comply with the provision of this rule prior to providing such prescription.
(4)The provisions of this rule shall not be construed to prohibit patient care in consultation with another physician who has an ongoing relationship with the patient, and who has agreed to supervise the patients treatment, including the use of any prescribed medications, nor on-call or cross-coverage situations in which the physician has access to patient records.
(5)For purposes of this rule,the term telemedicine shall include, but is not limited to, prescribing legend drugs to patients through the following modes of communication:
(a)Internet;
(b)Telephone;and
(c)Facsimile.
Specific Authority 458.309,458.331(1)(v)FS.Law Implemented 458.331(1)(q),(t),(v) FS.History New 9-14-03.
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/medical/rule_Telemedicine.pdf
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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Quote:
This Florida law was just passed 5 days ago. I don't know when it goes into effect but get em while you can cause it looks like it's over guys!
What is 'over'? Nothing is over - this has actually been the law *technically* for at least 2 years. That's why about 2 years ago, all the 'online questionnaire' only places were closed down. If anything is over, it's only the easy-to-order, no records OP's like ErX and Buymeds. Nothing will change for the OP's that were already requesting records and doing telephone consultations. It may not even be *over* for the other sites (erx,etc.) - it is just the end of the way they *used to do business* - Now instead of being a 'grey area' - they are putting it black and white (the laws I mean) - they are saying - THIS is the way you can do it, this is the way you can't do it. Like I said - in reality - the laws about proper 'doctor patient relationships' ALREADY had these provisions. It looks like now they are just putting it a little more clearly and directly on the law-books so that there is no confusion or grey area about it.
We all knew this would happen. Fairly obvious I think. Actually, this makes things *better* for the OPs that were already following these simple rules - because now it is defined by law, that what they are doing is legal. It says that records, proof of examination, and a telephone consult are what is needed to establish a legal doctor/patient relationship. Therefore - in effect - this does shut down some of the 'easier' places, but it guarantees the legit ones that what they are doing is legal. No more grey area about it, as long as records are requested and a consultation actually takes place. So places like AAAMWW, YOD, Midland - are actually better off now, because the law clearly indicates that what they are doing is above the law. It's only the 'end' for cerain 'types' of OPs. For people that can't provide proof of ANY need whatsoever for taking pain meds, then yes it's going to be over soon.
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//zeuzjuz
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 474
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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I agree with zeuzjuz and add:
2)Physicians and physician assistants shall not provide treatment recommendations, including issuing a prescription,via electronic or other means,unless the following elements have been met:
(a)A documented patient evaluation,including history and physical examination to establish the diagnosis for which any legend drug is prescribed.
THIS particular note allows for us to still obtain what we need through OP's- all it's saying is that all OP's are ultimately going to be forced to do business like say... YOD or others like them. It's just going to make business better for those OP's already operating this way 
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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carlygh
Member
Reged: 07/10/03
Posts: 117
Loc: East Coast
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I didn't mean that "everything was over" literally. I was using a little bit of hyperbole. And that particular law was only passed five days ago, as I wrote. So whatever has been in effect for two years wasn't that particular piece of legislation. I saw this piece of information and thought board members might be interested. Sorry if you were offended.
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 652
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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One thing I noticed on ERXonline...I don't use but like to see what people are saying and if they are still using that stupid site...is that if you are caught using another pharmacy..they charge you $25...sounds like they are monitoring or something...or maybe they catch it cause they are related to buymeds....JMHO..BOO
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living with pain is not living at all. Boo
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plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 282
Loc: California
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Before I was banned by DB, I was trying to explain this situation and it seems very few understood. The domestic OP's are in decline -- Bush & Ashcroft are obsessed with proving that though they are draft dodgers, they are tough in the war on drugs.
Reality is that recreational drug suppliers have been moving heroin, cocaine and marijuana across the Mexican/US border with only minor hiccoughs for decades. As the FDA/DEA/State agencies close down the domestic OP's, the hybrid OP's -- who have websites outside the US, but who can ship from within the US (e.g. San Ysidro, El Paso or Seattle) are going to take over the grey market Rx med distribution in the US. The US war on drugs is lost (surpised?)-- Globalism is incongruent with national controls on imported products.
The babyboomers will buy their meds from the websites in Canada, Mexico etc. Especially because the Bushies want a radical reform (reduction) of social security and medicare; but like Iraq, they're not very good at thinking through their "religious" impulses. It will impoverish many of the baby-boomers. To sum it up "simply" the revolution of the 60's will happen in the next ten years - fifty years late, but it will be just as ugly.
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"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
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wat853son
Member
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 150
Loc: USA
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Indeed, Plotinus returns starting where left off! Welcome back! Look forward to round 2 of your witty, caustic, candid, shock-jock but contributing posts nonetheless . . . Long live DB, OPs and even Plotinus.

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Anonymous
Unregistered
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This is only a FLA law passed so the pharms down there will be the ones to follow these procedures. There are obviously other US Ops in other states that will still maintain our level of expectations. Just my thoughts... Train
BTW -- Love the pic Plotinus
Edited by train (09/21/03 05:44 PM)
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tansun
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 05/28/02
Posts: 1152
Loc: southern USA
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I dont think you really have to worry about all the OPs shutting down. there is just tooooo much money$$$$$$ to be made this way and I feel someone will always be in the biz wanting to at least take advantage of people ( if not help them ) I am not saying all the OPs are out to take advantage of people , i am sure some care, but the $ sign attached to these operations is just too high for everyone to just quit cause the laws are written that way. People who want $$$ will try to find loopholes to stay in buisness.
I suspect OPs will be around a while.
Tansun
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"Madam Meanness"
---------where theres a will, theres a way ----------
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pescado1
Journeyman
Reged: 07/22/03
Posts: 86
Loc: The Southwest
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Oh God!!! Everyone panic its the end of the world. Where am I going to get my drugs? Guys just remember that "where there is a will there is a way". As long as there are people in pain and doctors who want to make a quick buck we will get what we need.
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"One man gathers what another man spills"
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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There was an article I read in the paper about the Iowa pharmacy that was shut down. It basically said that patients probably won't have any problems if they cooperate if contacted. It said the authorities are more interested in the OPs, doctors, etc...
It went on to say that no one wants to ne medicine cabinet cop.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 922
Loc: usa
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The only problem I can forsee is the stipulation requiring a physical examination, and since the legit OP's require records documenting a physical exam within the last 12 months, this should suffice....doctors rely on the examinations, findings and reports of other physicians all the time, so why not here?
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plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 282
Loc: California
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Quote:
This is only a FLA law passed so the pharms down there will be the ones to follow these procedures. There are obviously other US Ops in other states that will still maintain our level of expectations. Just my thoughts... Train
BTW -- Love the pic Plotinus
thanks for the positive feedback on my new Avatar(is that what it's called?) - it seems my original rehabilitation avatar -- the chimp (something our president is often called on more political boards), who didn't know how to handle the pistol was found a little unnerving by some board participants, who didn't get or didn't appreciate the political sarcasm. Although I can assure you that I never intended the chimp to be threatening, atleast no more so than the photo of "pinhead" from the movie "He11raiser," which has always made me a bit squeamish.
Anyway, I thought and I thought about what I could put up that would reflect my idiosyncratic personality (perhaps herbandseals characterization of me as a shock jock is closer to home than I care to admit?), without suggesting violence and the "kiss" just seemed to fulfill that need for being outrageous without suggesting violence or threats of violence. However, I'm still pondering avatars, because one member, whom I respect very much and who supported me when I was banned, has suggested that the "kiss" makes her uncomfortable.
Here's the problem: obviously I love to hear myself talk and I love to read my own dense prose, much of which is undoubtedly incomprehensible to a normal person, who has never been exposed to the true strangeness of our cosmos. The SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN article referenced in my signature is not a hoax -- not only the "laws of Star Trek," but the laws of phyics require the existence of parallel universes in which you or atleast someone that looks like you, feels like you and has your memories up to this moment exits. Try to fit that in an Avatar
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"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 489
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Quote:
Bush & Ashcroft are obsessed with proving that though they are draft dodgers, they are tough in the war on drugs.
Plotonius...no offense, but you are a doofus. The draft dodging pair of Clinton/Reno was every bit as a proponent of the war on drugs as Bush/Ashcroft. Why don't you at least take a stab at intellectual honesty?
Your revolution of the 60's has faded into a mass of stockbrokers, insurance agents, and other people trying to raise families. Get real, dude, and quit being just another Bitter Bush Basher.
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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moonshade
Old Hand
Reged: 12/01/02
Posts: 467
Loc: searching for my lost shaker o...
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Have to agree with Carlygh.Regarding Floida....
Governor Jeb Bush and his "task force" are out to demolish.
Read her post. Physical exam required.
Not much more needed to interpret.
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charm
Member
Reged: 05/28/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Ohio
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I may be inclined to agree also. I was just told by erx that my order, (which has been delayed) was returned from the pharmacy because they no longer can ship to OH because of new laws. It is SUPPOSEDLY going thru another pharm...IF I get it, then I'll have to believe Fla. pharms are gone...at least for my state.
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shine
Banned for being unpolite
Reged: 03/16/03
Posts: 128
Loc: California USA
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CAM YOU HELP ME FIND A US SOURSE THAT IS FAST AND EASY???IS THAT POSSIBLE?NO ERX,BUYMED,MEDPHARMOR TROP..THANKS NEED SOME HELP..THANKS ALL
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Bush & Ashcroft are obsessed with proving that though they are draft dodgers, they are tough in the war on drugs.
Plotonius...no offense, but you are a doofus. The draft dodging pair of Clinton/Reno was every bit as a proponent of the war on drugs as Bush/Ashcroft. Why don't you at least take a stab at intellectual honesty?
"No offense, but you are a doofus"? That sure was an offensive comment. He/she was just stating an opinion.
Intellectual honesty? Try this one on for size. Read the Patriot Act. Have you read it? In the history of this nation, this is the most liberty stripping act ever created. All under the Bush/Ashcroft regime.
Read the entire act, and tell me if it doesn't give you any cause for concern. Look at all the power this act gave the government. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
The war on drugs is a joke. Money wasted where it could be better spent on other things that actually help people. And no, Clinton/Reno were nothing compared to Bush/Ashcroft and their little plan to invade people's privacy, and lock people up without probable cause, search people's residences without even following due process. Oh, I didn't realize Janet Reno dodged the draft. I guess you really do learn something everyday.
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 652
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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Hi..no offence here at all... really ...we need to move this thread to the laws and reg's threads...look there and you will find a plethera of information on this very subject..really no offence to any of this...it's good banter and please keep it USA banter...but DB..maybe it would be better set down at the laws section...Boo...I can also shut up and keep my Italian mouth shut but it's very hard to do....sorry...
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living with pain is not living at all. Boo
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forcelite
Newbie
Reged: 05/20/02
Posts: 37
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so what other states have alot of OP's? personally I only know of florida. I have not ever found any reliable mexican op's and not any other states for that matter.
Can anyone point out a Op in a different state?
And not madison pian clinic, they are in dallas I know but hter are not what I consider an op
Force
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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EVMG, YOD... come to mind.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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ruderick
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 59
Loc: south carolina/florida native
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what does bush and ashcroft have to do with this situation .this has been a law in florida for many years,this is a florida state law.if u want clinton back move to harlem .
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Ocean
Member
Reged: 04/20/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Outside of New York City
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I would take Clinton back in a $*#@ heartbeat over Bush and even worse... Asscroft...
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Such a long, long time to be gone... And a short time to be there...
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 489
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Quote:
I would take Clinton back in a $*#@ heartbeat over Bush and even worse... Asscroft...
I personally pray that Clinton (not her husband) runs against W in '04 and drives a stake through the heart of the Clinton cosa nostra political aspirations once and for all. Compared to the jackbooted Reno, Ashcroft seems hands off.
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 922
Loc: usa
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Quote:
Have to agree with Carlygh.Regarding Floida....
Governor Jeb Bush and his "task force" are out to demolish.
Read her post. Physical exam required.
Not much more needed to interpret.
ah...but you only need to have a physical exam....if it's been done by a licensed, competent physician, you've had one....doctors rely on the findings of other doctors all the time...if not the whole system would crumble under the weight of repeated exams, tests and such......I think as long as there is a documented examination that the prescribing provider can rely on, this won't be a hindrence
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tansun
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 05/28/02
Posts: 1152
Loc: southern USA
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LOOPHOLES boys and girls!! Who says the exam has to be done by that Dr if its been done less than a year ago???
Think about when you go to a regular dr. Your vitals , temp , blood pressure , etc , is done by the triage nurse. That is the exam they are looking for. tthe NURSE isnt prescribing your medication though , you then sit in a room and wait for the Dr to come in ( who does not repeat that exam ) he just writes the script.
Tansun
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"Madam Meanness"
---------where theres a will, theres a way ----------
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plotinus
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 282
Loc: California
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Quote:
Quote:
Bush & Ashcroft are obsessed with proving that though they are draft dodgers, they are tough in the war on drugs.
Plotonius...no offense, but you are a doofus. The draft dodging pair of Clinton/Reno was every bit as a proponent of the war on drugs as Bush/Ashcroft. Why don't you at least take a stab at intellectual honesty?
Your revolution of the 60's has faded into a mass of stockbrokers, insurance agents, and other people trying to raise families. Get real, dude, and quit being just another Bitter Bush Basher.
Opie -- As part of my rehab here at DB, I'm supposed to push the mod button when I get flamed, rather than flame back.
IMO - when the babyboomers figure out that there are going to be severe cuts in their social security and medicare benefits to cover the deficits from Bush's tax cuts for his rich friends, there are going to be a lot of angry AARP members. AARP members vote and they are going to vote to increase your taxes, assuming you're still under fifty by 2010, to restore their benefits. Of course you probably won't have any income to tax because your "Business Systems Analyst" job will have been shipped to India by then.
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"War on ...." is the wrong metaphor!
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bushstalin04
Journeyman
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 61
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I would have to disagree opie...while reno/clinton did enforce the War on drugs...they didn't manipulate the constitution to do so. Case in point, "Heeere's Johnny" Ashcroft's arrest and seizures of "drug" paraphrenalia makers saying that since people use these things for drug use then its illegal. Thats just idiotic logic...how is a producer of a product liable for the illegal use of his product? He's not, because if he was then aerosol keyboard cleaners, nitrous oxide canisters, aluminum foil, on and on would be banned because they could be used to get high or make paraphrenalia. So, while I'm no fan of the war on drugs in general, Bush's regime has taken things to a new level by using the unconstitutional patriot act for purposes outside of its intended use and by doing other things which further shred the bill of rights/constitution. But, I guess you watch Fox News...america's version of State Run TV.
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dollhog
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/06/02
Posts: 291
Loc: the deep deep south
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Aaah, yet another blind Bush supporter. Can you say Baaah!!,
like the rest of the sheep.
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